ok, so remind me of why we can't run disconnects on the front, on the H3?

[elripster]

Steve I'm not saying you didn't break the shaft, I'm only stating it had to be under a load to break (i.e. traction or possible brake force...). I want to dispel the idea that shafts will break simply because the suspension was extended which is something I think we agree upon.

Just curious, what part of the shaft failed in your instance?

Frank

 

[Hunner]

There was a time in the last few months where I kept breaking my swaybar end link mounts on the front upper A-arm (we switched to the upper a-arm during the bebemonster build) any-who, I could totally tell when I broke it (happened at least 3-4 times before Rick and Jeff finally "Fixed" it).

As I was going into a turn, I could feel the truck lean, and it would keep leaning until it hit the limit strap.And I could feel it hit that strap hard. Pretty scary!

That situation was potentially possible with the more basic OEM set up but cranked torsions and extended shocks, was why I am running longer anti-sway bar links and had the limit straps on the 06. I get it that the longer travel I had could cause that and I wanted to prevent it before it happened.

 

[backcountryislife]

While I don't believe that simply being at full droop "caused" the breakage in & of itself... I don't think there's any arguing that cv's are weaker the further from center they are, just like over-steering.

It's a matter of scale, imo. Are you going to go full droop, pin it, then hit a rock... you're pretty darn likely to weaken it, or snap something. Over time it WILL have a consequence if you drive without regard to angles on an IFS rig.

 

[06 H3]

also remember this too, overtime with abuse, CV's will weaken. Sometimes the failure occurs on an easier obstacle. Why on an easy obstacle? Just because that was the time it decided to give, yet all those tougher obstacles weakened it more and more...That goes for solid axles too. An axleshaft snaps on some little obstacle yet we forget why it broke it probably got weakened overtime. Maybe when steve broke his halfshaft it was from the wear and tear overtime not on that particular obstacle. I know this can get expensive but sometimes changing to new halfshafts every year or two isnt a bad idea. Im sure if we all did that halfshafts would be breaking a lot less, but remember this DOES NOT mean you can go out with a brand new halfshaft with a heavy foot on a loose rocky climb.

 

[4speedfunk]

I've wheeled my 08 H3 damn near every weekend since day one. At 19,000 miles I was on my third front axle...second steering rack...second driveshaft...and ORIGINAL HALFSHAFTS! I feel the stockers are plenty stout. IMO...of all the parts to worry about, the half-shafts are on the bottom of the list (right next to tie rods). Ironically these are the easiest parts to change, and carrying trail spares is a good idea. But, frankly...all I ever did was remove these parts to change the stuff in between them! Of course...now they're lying in a pile on the shop floor...(all still good, too)! I think CVs and tie-rods fail more due to lack of lubrication, than actual abuse.

I think discos and flexy suspension are completely un-necessary on the H3. It has the drivetrainbrains to make up for only 4" of travel. It takes awhile to figure out how to drive the H3 but, once you do...you can follow a Jeep almost anywhere (almost). Unless you do some major custom work to the front IFS...I'de get used to tri-cycling and let the TCS do its thing. Otherwise...you're gonna get real good at swapping parts. My record is 52 minutes for an entire front axle swap. (thats starting with jackstands in place, wheels already off, new AAM standing by). Swapping a front axle is actually very easy, and could be done on the trail. But who wants to carry a complete spare axle?

Sigh...the joys of IFS. I will miss you ole buddy.



not.

 

[bebe]

Mee too Funk...never broke a halfshaft or a tie-rod. (knock on Ricks head)

 

[backcountryislife]

I think discos and flexy suspension are completely un-necessary on the H3. It has the drivetrainbrains to make up for only 4" of travel. It takes awhile to figure out how to drive the H3 but, once you do...you can follow a Jeep almost anywhere (almost). Unless you do some major custom work to the front IFS...I'de get used to tri-cycling and let the TCS do its thing.

I think it must be much more effective on an auto... TCS works well on my truck, but when a wheel is in the air, the way you have to drive is much less smooth (on mine anyhow) than if you were locked, or if both wheels were in contact.

Don't get me wrong... I use it all the time, and have figured out how to "spike it" just enough to get it to kick in (that took some practice) but it still spins for a bit first.

Here's a great pic that shows just how useful it is though... NO comparison to not having it!

Pass tire in contact, spinning, obvious motion, driver tire in the air, clearly not spinning...

Plain open diff, like my buddy's cherokee.... he's not making it.



btw, just put my shackles on a few minutes ago, went up & did a quick lap on first obstacle on spring creek

this one:

Put it over a couple rocks that have hit my front leaf mounts before & NOTHING... not a scratch. AWESOME. Can't believe the difference $40 & about 45 min makes! (and I got my rake back Bebe... my short AZZ can see over the hood again... kinda )



So cool to have that as a 15 min lap I can go test on, real quick to tell if you've made any big changes or if something worked or not.

 

[4speedfunk]

Make sure you install longer brake lines with those shackles! You might not realize it now...but you have increased your droop. Its very possible to "out-droop" your rear brake lines if you get over flexy. Ask kflips.

 

[backcountryislife]

I pulled the mount point from the routing & re-routed... you still think I'll have a problem?
Don't need to replace another sensor this month!!! :gaah:

I'll do a quick search & see if I can find a thread with some directions/ specifics. Thanks!

edit:
Looks like I just did the same thing that trekker did... I've got to do shocks & discos next though now!

 

[4speedfunk]

While we're on the topic...thought I would post some pics of my "THORparts CRASH KIT". This contains everything you'll need to get your H3 home from the trail. I used to throw this in my rig when I went wheeling, and its entirely self-contained and very compact. I keep all this stuff separate from my normal tools...its sort of like "open in case of AAM emergency" Its a water-proof pelican case with all of this stuff inside it:

- A completely assembled, ready-to-run 4.56-geared alum housing AAM-7.
- GM half-shafts, used but ready to go.
- Replacement 4.56 Ring & Pinion, shim kit, and crush sleeves, (pattern dye included...God forbid)
- Replacement driver-side stub axle
- Replacement unit-bearing hub
- Replacement steering rack
- Half-shaft seals
- Spare tie-rods
- CV boot repair kit
- Synthetic gear lube (with fill-hose)
- Half-shaft socket
- front U-joint
- grease gun

The H3 front-end is such a worthless POS, that I always keep a fresh AAM-7 on hand. The last photo shows another one...it will get freshened-up, tagged, and stuck on a shelf. History has proven that it won't be long before it is needed. Anyway...all of these parts fit nicely inside the case, and it also makes a nice coffee table when camping. I'll be selling all of this stuff very soon...look for my garage sale in the classifieds section...

 

[backcountryislife]

Could have used a spare power steering pump & line or two today... where were you??????

 

[06 H3]

Could have used a spare power steering pump & line or two today... where were you??????

Ugh o....what happened?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[backcountryislife]

Power steering stopped working, then a line burst I think. Turned around & coasted home, we'll deal with it tomorrow.

Guessing somehow material got into the line & caused a blockage, then a rupture.


I love working on machines...

 

[06 H3]

CJ, I know we talked about this before but I forgot...How many diffs and steering racks did you go through from a stock to rancho lifted comparison

 

[4speedfunk]

I don't see any change in wear & tear between a stock IFS and a Rancho suspension. Once you install one, you understand how all of the critical pivot points have been relocated to keep the suspension within spec. You get the same lift as a T-bar crank...without all the increased angle. The only possible exception might be the front driveshaft which doen't handle the Rancho very well. The Rancho kit is certainly more capable, and definately an improvement over stock...both on and off road. On the downside...it requires aftermarket wheels, and its MSRP is double what it should be. It seems to be engineered very well, and I have very few complaints.

As for the the T-bar crank?...I think it causes alot of problems if you crank above 23.5". Tie rods, half-shafts, and steering rack angles all get close to (or exceed) what they are meant to handle. The ride can get very strange as well...mine was sort of "floaty" with cognitos but, some other people complain of "stiffness"...not sure why. I ran my truck for a year with a T-bar crank...then a year with the Rancho...and now I'm going to a solid axle. I'm anxious to drive it and see how it compares. The jury is still out on whether or not I'll like it better than the IFS.

 

[backcountryislife]

FYI,

Decided to listen to BEBE & work on rear flex (also doing front, but going to work on rear as well)


Some 5125's showed up in the mail today:

and these are on the way:

Should have this done by the time the rack is complete.

Little more flex will be nice!


Btw, thanks Trekker for the post, used that reference for ordering.

 

[atvspeed4]

I have always disconnected the front swaybar on everyone of the GM vehicles I use offroad. On the h3 I disconnect the front but always leave the rear connected. It forces the front IFS to flex more and keeps the vehicle a little more level while on real uneven terrain. I know its been discussed but look into the theory of the currie antirock system. With jeeps they often run the front antirock to keep the vehicle level and force the rear to stay in contact with the ground and flex. It all comes down to personal choice while offroading. I never have felt like the rear suspension on my h3 wasnt flexing well enough stock.

 

[bebe]

I guess that depends on the type of wheeling your doing too.

Can't compare an SA front SA Rear vehicle to an IFS front SA Rear can you?

Unless you're comparing them to a Grand Cherokee Heep?

The currie anti rock is the exact same theory as the one used on the H3, it's a torsion system. They just look different.

 

[06 H3]

let us know how it works out for you kaleb.

Bebe what travel #'s are you running in the rear?

 

[backcountryislife]

I have always disconnected the front swaybar on everyone of the GM vehicles I use offroad. On the h3 I disconnect the front but always leave the rear connected. It forces the front IFS to flex more and keeps the vehicle a little more level while on real uneven terrain. I know its been discussed but look into the theory of the currie antirock system. With jeeps they often run the front antirock to keep the vehicle level and force the rear to stay in contact with the ground and flex. It all comes down to personal choice while offroading. I never have felt like the rear suspension on my h3 wasnt flexing well enough stock.

Got to be honest, in general I agree with you, I feel like the rear flexes VERY well, and the front... don't do squat. Basically, I'm looking to get EVERYTHING I can out of it, front & rear, I've got +2" shackles now, so I'd like to get back to full stuff again, and basically trying to do anything I can to keep from slipping as much as I do right now. Currently I feel I slip WAY more than I should & I have to power instead of crawl through stuff way too much. I'm just going to get as much flex as I can & see if keeping all 4 in contact avoids that (it will at least HELP quite a bit) and perhaps that will keep me from spinning & lurching when the traction control kicks in like I do now.

Next weekend both will be dis connected, and we'll see what we get on both ends.

 

[bebe]

We talked earlier in this thread about the built in bumps for both up and down travel. So on and IFS front there are 2 bump stops on each side.

A SA's rear has one bump, for up travel. Why?

This is all based on down-force. Of course an SA rear with one bump is going to have more travel than an IFS front...it was designed that way.

Learning how to use traction control is one of the first things Rod Hall taught us in his Hummer Happenings back in the day.

Let the wheels spin at LOW speed, it will take a few seconds, but the power will transer to the wheels that have traction. You just have to do it at low speed, and it will crawl it's way out.

 

[backcountryislife]

The problem though, is when you're on a vertical obstacle, while you're waiting.... you're going backwards. I try feathering brake & clutch together, but it's definitely tough to do while waiting for TC to kick in. I'd like to feel what an auto is like to see how different it actually is... I just won't own one of those things.

 

[Steve #1]

Steve I'm not saying you didn't break the shaft, I'm only stating it had to be under a load to break (i.e. traction or possible brake force...). I want to dispel the idea that shafts will break simply because the suspension was extended which is something I think we agree upon.

Just curious, what part of the shaft failed in your instance?

Frank

There was very little traction to be had so I don't think that was it. If it was breaking from the TC that caused it, then you can't discount it as it will come in to play with any H3 without a front locker.

The outer joint shattered.

The problem though, is when you're on a vertical obstacle, while you're waiting.... you're going backwards. I try feathering brake & clutch together, but it's definitely tough to do while waiting for TC to kick in. I'd like to feel what an auto is like to see how different it actually is... I just won't own one of those things.

This may be why you are having issues getting the TC to work for you. When you touch the brake, it DEACTIVATES the traction control. When you let off, you go back to step one of engine speed and wheel spin before the TC kicks in.

The easiest way to get past this is to not stop when the tires start to spin, but to slow down. If you are stopped, use the parking brake to hold the truck from rolling backward. I know, it's hard on the H3 with the all or nothing release (to bad we don't have a hand operated one like on the RHD ones).

 

[backcountryislife]

This may be why you are having issues getting the TC to work for you. When you touch the brake, it DEACTIVATES the traction control. When you let off, you go back to step one of engine speed and wheel spin before the TC kicks in.

The easiest way to get past this is to not stop when the tires start to spin, but to slow down. If you are stopped, use the parking brake to hold the truck from rolling backward. I know, it's hard on the H3 with the all or nothing release (to bad we don't have a hand operated one like on the RHD ones).

You swing on out to the stuff I wheel here in CO... and try to do it non stop.:wink: I've actually found that you can get it to roll out of a brake/ throttle/ clutch mix on steep stuff, but it's really a pain to make it work. If I'm on a 60 foot long section that's 20 degree incline & technical... you're going to run that in probably 4 different "sections"... each time you start you don't have a choice but to use the brake.

It's definitely easier with an auto, I just can't stand them on the road. I haven't owned an auto since I was 19.

 

[backcountryislife]

FYI, first day on the bilstein setup today, went up & hit the hardest stuff I dared considering it was snowing up high.


Gained some flex, but find I'm topping out shocks on full extend, and hitting bump stop on full stuff... with the rear swaybar on.

I hopped on the tire with it off the ground & can feel a mechanical stop... won't go past there.

SO that being said, what would be to gain by removing the swaybar? Am I missing s detail I'm not thinking about, that would gain something in doing that?

I look at this same rock in the front & the two A arms are darn near EXACTLY level... I see what's to be gained there, but I just don't get where disconnecting the rear changes it.

What is it I'm missing?


Btw, the bilsteins handled GREAT on trail, off... they were a huge improvement.