Squeaky SAS thread

[06 H3]

The new coils were approx. 1/2" shorter than the old ones. The truck now sits the same 1/2" shorter at 28" fender-to-hub. The installed PLATE-to-PLATE dimension with the old springs (with the truck weight on them) was 17". The un-installed length was 20"...so with this size of spring, you can expect 3" of compression after install. This might seem quite stiff but, it works well. I did not move my buckets, as the springs were within a 1/2" of being the same length. I'm not expecting any different ride characteristics but, I'll update this thread if anything feels different. I have mine captured on top and bottom, and its important to note that coils will also stretch more than the base length of 20". When flexing like you are in your photos...expect another 3" or so of growth, even with the top captured.

The shocks are Fox 2.0 reservoirs. The eye-to-eye dimension on the mounts is 20" at rest. The shocks have 3" of shaft exposed at rest. The body is 13" long, so I believe they are 12" stroke.

So doesnt that mean you only have 3in of droop then?

Question: does running 37's push the limits of the Dana 44?


Mike

Like 4speed said 37s are safe for us to use on a Dana 44, ESPECIALLY because we have all been trained to not use the skinny pedal. I think for a hummer guy we could probably run a 38 with no issue just for that reason

I may have asked this question before I forgot. But what happens to the rear axle when you regeared to 5.13? Whoops found it I did ask on the sas spy thread. But anyways did you change out your rear axle as well? I thought we could only fit 4.56's

I regeared the rear to 5.13 too the front cant be regeared the rear can. I regeared the front because I have a dana 44

Obviously your invested, but if you had to do it over would you have sprung for coilovers instead? Seems it would have been easier in the long run??

Honestly, Idk. For flex coilovers would be easier but at the same time I would take coils for street use anyday and this thing sees 15-20k miles a year most being street use so I gotta stick with the daily driver friendly setup. Coilovers need more maintenance from what I have heard.

 

[Hummerboy]

I think the better question is if you could do it over would you have just bought a jeep? I love my 3 and certainly love the uniqueness of mine and certainly yours. But for the cost I could most likely have a nicely built jeep. That being said do you believe your setup is more capable than a built jeep? or you had the 3 and worked with what you had to make it a beast. I'm not posting to take away from h3s with solid axles swaps just always wondered if guys could start over if they would go with a jeep. Cause hell before I got my h3 I didn't know a difference between IFS and a solid axle. But now that I have a 3 I'm committed to make it the best I can.its too late now but if I could get all the money back id most likely but a jeep and deck it out.

 

[06 H3]

I think the better question is if you could do it over would you have just bought a jeep? I love my 3 and certainly love the uniqueness of mine and certainly yours. But for the cost I could most likely have a nicely built jeep. That being said do you believe your setup is more capable than a built jeep? or you had the 3 and worked with what you had to make it a beast. I'm not posting to take away from h3s with solid axles swaps just always wondered if guys could start over if they would go with a jeep. Cause hell before I got my h3 I didn't know a difference between IFS and a solid axle. But now that I have a 3 I'm committed to make it the best I can.its too late now but if I could get all the money back id most likely but a jeep and deck it out.

Ahh...good question, and I would, without a doubt, say hell no to a jeep. If I could do it all over again I would get an H3. The exact one I have to be honest.

I thought out the jeep thing back in the day and honestly I still dont think they are great daily drivers. My brother has one. My buddy doesnt like daily driver his TJ, they are small and tough to fit more then 2 people. JKs are much better DD's but still alot of work needs to be done. The seats SUCK balls compared to an H3. The interior is still subpar to an h3 The 3.8 sucks compared to my 3.5 (which we look down upon) the new 3.6 is better but the price tag of a new jeep is more then an H3 when it was new. If you have an alpha it would be less expensive to do a SAS to an H3 then to do a hemi swap to a Jeep.

On top of that, If you want your Jeep to handle well you need to buy a quality lift kit. The angles are never as good as stock (which those angles are ideal) once you lift it, the caster on a JK axle is horrible. You either get good pinion angle or good caster. They dont steer as well due to bad caster. To aid that you gotta cut and turn C's.

Axle bracketry...they are flimsy, you will eventually replace all of it. Maybe not as much of JKs, heres why they are not as old as TJs but give it time any JK that is wheeled hard the brackets will start to tear. So upgrade your bracketry before it breaks off. My buddy ended up having a track bar bracket break off...

With a solid axle swap you finish off lifted but with ideal stock type suspension angles, you can build caster into it so it steers just as nice. you start with beefy brackets. I kept a comfortable interior. I have a VERY unique vehicle.

It rides nicer then my brothers JK. Its more comfortable and on long road trips its a hell of a lot quieter. Taking the top off is cool though.

Overall you will spend some money on either setup. I think with the rate H3 prices are going and the rate JK prices are going an H3 is more bang for your buck. Even a rancho lift, spring over, disconnecting the sway bars will do some major work on the trail. Trust me on that. I keep up with the jeeps on 99% of the stuff with my rancho ifs and spring over. People would shake their heads in amazement. Now I feel I can run with any vehicle with the same size tires as I have and probably have a more well balanced (on road/offroad) vehicle. My hangup now will be size. A TJ can fit where an H3 cant. a JK and H3 are closer in size. The H3 fenders though are like big pillows. they absorb the impact and keep you away from the body.

I am a Hummer guy, If I wasnt popping diffs I would still be IFS because I could keep up with others but it broke. I will hope to have an H1 and H2 one day also. H1 would be left alone...H2 would be budget built SAS. With the size of an H2 it would be strictly trail only and I would bash in the doors and not give a ****.

To me the grass isnt always greener on the other side. Sure, there are things H3 guys want that JK guys have but there are things you certainly would miss on the H3. Im happy with what I have. I was happy when it was torsion bar cranked, I was happy with the rancho/spring over and I am happy so far with the SAS. The whole progression has been enjoyed thoroughly.

 

[High Five H2]

"H3 front axles are like drunk cheerleaders....just use em until they get mouthy...then toss em and get... whatever the front axle equivalent of a supermodel is, apparently. I agree on all points. one o' these days I'll do the same thing. dunno if I'll do it in my driveway though i'm skeered

 

[Hummerboy]

Great points. Thanks for the feedback I've seen the sas builds and wondered why but now I know

 

[4speedfunk]

So doesnt that mean you only have 3in of droop then?

No...much more. Closer to 10", possibly more. That goes back to what I was saying about the capture plate at the top of the springs. Even though they are physically fastened to the frame...they stretch like mad. When one side of the axle is stuffed...the whole assembly articulates and the opposite side droops. Sometimes to jaw-dropping levels! This is a SA thang, and the rules of IFS don't apply. Its hard to talk about droop based entirely on a single spring and its static characteristics. It needs to be on the truck to really see what it does. The basic thing I'm saying is: Go mild with springs & shocks!...it will still be capable beyond what you expect. And best of all it does not exhibit any of the negative effects that a super-long travel, super-soft, (and super-expensive) suspension does.

if you had to do it over would you have sprung for coilovers instead?

Everybody has a different goal in mind...but for me, the answer is a huge "HELL NO". I still load my H3 up with camping gear. I still pull a trailer from time-to-time. It must be practical and suitable for daily use, and I'm not convinced that a coil-over system can make it past 50K street miles without serious attention. I think most of the guys chattin it up here on the forums have "off-road tunnel vision". They see the magazines. They see $80,000 JKs all ganked-up and bad-ass. They just assume THAT YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE coil-overs, ram-assist, beadlocks, lockers, etc to have a capable wheeler....which is complete nonsense. More than once, I have been absolutely schooled by a $900 XJ with a 3" lift. And what were these Jeeps running? Yup...coils/shocks on the front and leafs on the rear. Jus sayin.

P.S. BTW 06H3...I forgot to mention, those Bronco springs above are 3/4" wire, probably a size or two thicker than the wire used on the JK springs.

 

[5gn-h3t]

I'm in the middle of doing this myself. I'll comment on what I can. I really have nothing against JEEPs. I just really enjoy the H3. I'll have under $13,000 grand into the entire project - including the truck. I bought an '06 with a worn out front end for $7,800 and cut it off. This can be done even cheaper if you don't mind looking around for deals and relatively rare stock parts. JEEP vs HUMMER is just personal preference. I don't like daily driving a Wrangler and they are harsh off-road compared to an H3. On the other hand, I've seen mild XJ's go over stuff better than I could on an ATV or dirt bike. I've wheeled some really tight stuff with Wranglers in my H3T. They have to get a running start and bounce over things while I calmly crawl and I have to make 100 point turns while they just spine the steering wheel once. Both are capable and have their strengths and weaknesses. I think an SAS H3 is great and fits my wants/needs very well.

4speekfunk and 06 H3 - Thank you!

 

[06 H3]

no problem and CJ, That makes more sense. I thought you had clamped it and that finishes your flex.

For example, you take your coil. Its 20in long on the truck it compresses to 17. So now you have 3in of droop before the coil would unseat. Seeing your clamped I thought the spring would stretch from the tugging maybe 1in so you then had 4in of down 3in of up. totaling you 7in of total travel. If it really will stretch the spring quite a bit then I would not be so hesitant to running a clamp on top. Out here even though an H3 is flexless it does work because of traction control but flex limits your body damage, thats why I want it. The less you have the more you lean.

Im heading over to run sidewinder, bronco peak, bronco peak connector, 911A all down by san diego black friday through sunday (End of november) the flex will help keep my body off this rock.

[video=youtube;IQSVUX23P1c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQSVUX23P1c[/video]

I am wide so I have to climb higher on the wall which means I need the droop to keep me from rolling. Can I do this with less flex? Certainly but my risk of damage goes up drastically because I would have to start lower on the rock putting the body closer.

 

[06 H3]

I'm in the middle of doing this myself. I'll comment on what I can. I really have nothing against JEEPs. I just really enjoy the H3. I'll have under $13,000 grand into the entire project - including the truck. I bought an '06 with a worn out front end for $7,800 and cut it off. This can be done even cheaper if you don't mind looking around for deals and relatively rare stock parts. JEEP vs HUMMER is just personal preference. I don't like daily driving a Wrangler and they are harsh off-road compared to an H3. On the other hand, I've seen mild XJ's go over stuff better than I could on an ATV or dirt bike. I've wheeled some really tight stuff with Wranglers in my H3T. They have to get a running start and bounce over things while I calmly crawl and I have to make 100 point turns while they just spine the steering wheel once. Both are capable and have their strengths and weaknesses. I think an SAS H3 is great and fits my wants/needs very well.

4speekfunk and 06 H3 - Thank you!

This is well said! I do enjoy my brothers JK. I have nothing against them and they are cool as hell but in my opinion it would be a great weekend ride. For people who dont have the tools or time or resources to do a SAS the JK may be a better fit but for me driving both I still think the H3 with a SAS handles better then a JK.

 

[Panzer07]

no problem and CJ, That makes more sense. I thought you had clamped it and that finishes your flex.

For example, you take your coil. Its 20in long on the truck it compresses to 17. So now you have 3in of droop before the coil would unseat. Seeing your clamped I thought the spring would stretch from the tugging maybe 1in so you then had 4in of down 3in of up. totaling you 7in of total travel. If it really will stretch the spring quite a bit then I would not be so hesitant to running a clamp on top. Out here even though an H3 is flexless it does work because of traction control but flex limits your body damage, thats why I want it. The less you have the more you lean.

Im heading over to run sidewinder, bronco peak, bronco peak connector, 911A all down by san diego black friday through sunday (End of november) the flex will help keep my body off this rock.

[video=youtube;IQSVUX23P1c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQSVUX23P1c[/video]

I am wide so I have to climb higher on the wall which means I need the droop to keep me from rolling. Can I do this with less flex? Certainly but my risk of damage goes up drastically because I would have to start lower on the rock putting the body closer.

that's some scary scheiße mate !!! With That Said, I Want To Try It.


Torres

 

[derian06]

no problem and CJ, That makes more sense. I thought you had clamped it and that finishes your flex.

For example, you take your coil. Its 20in long on the truck it compresses to 17. So now you have 3in of droop before the coil would unseat. Seeing your clamped I thought the spring would stretch from the tugging maybe 1in so you then had 4in of down 3in of up. totaling you 7in of total travel. If it really will stretch the spring quite a bit then I would not be so hesitant to running a clamp on top. Out here even though an H3 is flexless it does work because of traction control but flex limits your body damage, thats why I want it. The less you have the more you lean.

Im heading over to run sidewinder, bronco peak, bronco peak connector, 911A all down by san diego black friday through sunday (End of november) the flex will help keep my body off this rock.

[video=youtube;IQSVUX23P1c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQSVUX23P1c[/video]

I am wide so I have to climb higher on the wall which means I need the droop to keep me from rolling. Can I do this with less flex? Certainly but my risk of damage goes up drastically because I would have to start lower on the rock putting the body closer.

It seems as though it may be time to custom fab a roll cage for squeaky.

 

[06 H3]

a roll cage is next but thats still a ways out.

Torres, that is bronco peak connector. I plan to run sidewinder as a so cal run on black friday. That trail is much tamer then bronco peak connector but still a challenge. For bronco peak connector body damage must be expected, I recommend full skids and a rancho lift at the minimum.

 

[Panzer07]

If I'm good to go by then which I hope I will I'll definitely try it...maybe taking the fenders off might might reduce the damage to them and I'm down to even to down size all 4 doors...this way I think body damage would reduce by a good percent perhaps a good 90%.


Torres

 

[cbetts]

Have you run Sidewinder before? It would be good to pre-run so you know exactly what it will take to get through it.

 

[Panzer07]

If you/me we spot each other like this and whoever is crazy enough to join, we should be fine and be able to come out without body damage, I watched plenty of vids from this part in specific and this is by far one of the best one I could find for bronco peak
http://youtu.be/rq05qtcMBPQ

And this is the worst.
http://youtu.be/9aVn2mNX0IY


Torres

 

[06 H3]

Have you run Sidewinder before? It would be good to pre-run so you know exactly what it will take to get through it.

I have not That's why haven't posted the run yet...I was waiting for the PM back

 

[06 H3]

By the looks of it sidewinder is not bad. Stockish FJs have ran it.

Torres, that bronco peak connector is gnarly. As long as your ok with the great possibility of damage then your good.

 

[Zach]

IIRC correctly Mikkel might have run it in his H1. I know the trail he ran was SD area but that was a few years ago. Might check with him. If it is the same trail, it's tough

 

[cbetts]

I will contact later. I need to get my truck back on the road before I make any decisions.

 

[Zach]

I'm out and possibly out till maybe Moab. Too much to do. Gotta upgrade the beater and get rid of the cvt trans in it.

 

[Panzer07]

Yeah I'm ok with taking some body damage if it can not be prevented....battle scars build character in the truck lol, but most likely I'll take the doors off, driving doorsless should be fine in the highway with all that wind lol...or if anything I'll see if I can leave my doors with a friend who lives down at the San Diego.the fenders I can easily take them off and throw them in the back on the trail if it need be. I'm pump for this. And side winders looks easy compare to bronco I think I saw that FJ's video you talking about.


Torres

 

[silvrzuki77]

Everybody has a different goal in mind...but for me, the answer is a huge "HELL NO". I still load my H3 up with camping gear. I still pull a trailer from time-to-time. It must be practical and suitable for daily use, and I'm not convinced that a coil-over system can make it past 50K street miles without serious attention. I think most of the guys chattin it up here on the forums have "off-road tunnel vision". They see the magazines. They see $80,000 JKs all ganked-up and bad-ass. They just assume THAT YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE coil-overs, ram-assist, beadlocks, lockers, etc to have a capable wheeler....which is complete nonsense. More than once, I have been absolutely schooled by a $900 XJ with a 3" lift. And what were these Jeeps running? Yup...coils/shocks on the front and leafs on the rear. Jus sayin.

I wasnt asking from a be cool magazine perspective. I was wondering from the packaging and the ability to dial the coils easier. I think regardless at 50000 mi your shocks are going to be doomed. When I ran King airshocks on my rock buggy it easy and cheap to have them rebuilt and valved.

Still both you guys did a awesome job! Just curious.

 

[06 H3]

For me a selling point to coils was cost. I have 150 bucks in coils so far and 150 bucks in shocks. The 150 bucks I spent in coils I am not even the biggest fan of so far my favorite springs I added 2 days ago and they are jeep ZJ coils. they were free. So for around 300 bucks I have in the coil spring setup I would be well over 1k for the coilovers.

So a quick update. I have logged over 2k on it now. I stopped by my buddies house and he let me have a set of 5.5 lift coils off of his ZJ. I like them the most so far. They seem like a cross between the bronco coils and the JK coils. They are softer then the broncos but dont allow the amount of sway the JK coils had.

I also swapped out my rear leaves. My leafs were the original ones that came on the truck 130k miles ago, I had them off for a little bit for the deavers and the ranchos but eventually went back on with the spring over. They are so beat up and shot. One had no bushing left. they were all bent, the pads were gone, the clamps were all loose. I could bounce the rear end and it felt like I had no shocks. I put in hans old T springs. I remember 4speedfunk saying T springs are softer then H3 springs so I took one add a leaf out hopefully to balance out the softer spring. I was wrong I sit way taller now. I need to pull the other add a leaf. The drive is good. I like the new springs. Much better then before, minus the ride height. I couldnt believe how saggy my old springs were. I also stretched the rear wheelbase an inch with the adjustable spring perches.



I definitely need to pull that add a leaf.

 

[digglesworth]

those tires look so small. lol. theyre probably worn to 33s by now though, huh....

 

[Panzer07]

Never skip leg day lol


Torres