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Squeaky SAS thread

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,505
Location
Meridian, ID
The 4.5 ones. If you had a HUGE sway bar JKs could work lol

Here is the link

http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Rock_Crawler_4in_pr

They were super cool, they gave me spring rates and everything. I tried calling AEV to get their spring rates off their JK spring so I could get a ballpark and they basically told me to **** off. I get if there coil springs rode nice on the JK why they would wanna keep it a secret but there is a reason they came off my brothers jeep. **** them...anyways wild horses4x4 was cool.

They did give me more lift then the JK springs so I am sitting too tall but with adjustable coil buckets its an easy fix.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,505
Location
Meridian, ID
Did you guys order those coil springs? I hope not. I feel the lower rate "coil clapping" Theres only 2 of us out here in SAS coil spring land and I am experimenting with coils and I havent found an answer yet. I am trying to find a cross between Daily driver friendly, high speed friendly and rock crawling friendly.
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
The early Bronco is a fairly small truck. I chose the big (OJ Simpson) model for this reason. I think it's F-150 chassis is a closer match to the H3. I have no idea what the rate is. Perhaps the coils are wrapped too tightly for the weight you have sitting on them? What sort of space do you have between the coils? Is the "clapping" caused from the coils colliding?
 
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4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
Those red coils look to be wrapped very tightly. Not much space in between them (like the black ones sitting next to them). My guess is that you need some coils with the spacing like the black ones....but with larger wire-size so they are stiffer. I'm sure both look much different with weight sitting on them.
 
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06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,505
Location
Meridian, ID
Yea. The coils would touch when I hit a bump. In the beginning they didn't but now that I have put some miles on em I'm sure they are settling. So you feel a clunk and they hit. I'm sure in a few months they will be permanently sitting on top so where I have no clunk. Almost like a spacer lift. Just completely compressed ontop of it. Then the 2nd rate would be only used until I droop out and basically the soft rate acts just adds to free height. I call it coil clapping because my jeep buddy was driving and hitting a parking lot entrance fast enough while I got out and watched them touch. He said its coil clapping. Maybe not the real term but the jeep guys probably call it that. The more and more I do different coils the more those big bronco coils sound ideal. It's just for some damn reason I have the need to experiment. I just want to be sure there's nothing else that may work. If I find one that does then we can tell future SASers what options they have.
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
This same issue can occur on valve springs. We drag racers call it "coil bind" and it will destroy a motor. I've currently got a big block Chevy on the stand and I'm running a .600" lift Lunati roller cam. Rumor has it that my current valve springs are good up to .550" lift. So, I will need to change them to a different design (beehive springs) to prevent the binding. Its the same situation...except much smaller springs and sixteen of em! Its never happened to me but, I've heard nightmare stories about guys starting motors for the first time...only to mangle the entire valve train in the first 10 seconds.

You might want to get your bump stops installed before you go crazy swapping springs. After all...the bump stops should be positioned to stop the travel before anything important bottoms out. Normally, we're concerned about the axle tubes hitting the frame, or the drag link hitting the tie rod, or blowing the tops off the shocks...but I suppose the same thing applies to coil bind. If everything is set-up correctly...the bump stops should take the hit before any other components (including the coils).
 

5gn-h3t

Well-Known Member
Messages
616
Location
Northeast Pennsyltucky
I didn't order them. I'm sitting on the fence. I guess I'll cross that bridge right when I get to it. I've got enough left to do that I don't really need to worry about coils.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,505
Location
Meridian, ID
Just completed a 500+ mile road trip to Vegas and back. It did great. Felt good around 86 mph after that I want a swaybar. I'm tired lost some money but had a good time. The 5.13s are great. I just gotta do a swaybar and keep tinkering with coils. Overall most people would say BS on cruising comfortably on a long road trip in a SAS vehicle but it rides great just needs tuning and needs adjustments now
 

mudbug

trail blazer
Messages
232
Location
Brighton,Co
Starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

When is the Squeaky SAS swap kit be available?:)
Is there going to be a grease gun option in the kit.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,505
Location
Meridian, ID
the whole reason I did the SAS is because every part has a zerk fitting for grease. Now the entire truck needs to be greased up. Which is better if you like grease guns :giggle:
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
Killer deal...but, missing some critical info. I'm always amazed at guys that describe an axle as "full width". Full width for what vehicle?...they're all different. Real dimensions would be nice. He also states the "housing was not cut at all"....which can't be. If its a passenger-side, high-pinion...it is a Frankenstein housing and its definitely been cut on (fabbed). No such thing without major work.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,505
Location
Meridian, ID
True, the person would have to contact them. You wanna make sure you get stock width to avoid making custom shafts and all that nonsense.

I found out my "coil bind" issue its not my coils, for some reason my shock is defective its bottoming out but its not bottoming out. Only one side is doing that so the shock is defective. I am going to call up the company and try to get it warrantied. Its not like I went wheeling and killed it its all street driving so far.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,505
Location
Meridian, ID
I can try that. I just had the shock on...bounced test it bottomed out, pulled the shock off, bounced it, no bottoming out.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,505
Location
Meridian, ID
Still screwing with the swaybar...I think I am going to end up with the splined bar and have to make my own ends.


I have logged just under 2000 miles in about 5 weeks. Daily driving it and driving to to vegas racked up the miles. I developed a clunk. It ended up being a defective shock. It feels like the shock is bottoming out when there is still 3 1/2 in of shaft showing. I couldnt find the bottoming out feeling, I assumed it was coils clapping/binding but I disconnected the shocks. I havent wheeled or anything. I contacted the company wont answer my calls or emails. Seeing they are barely used and only a month or so old I want to atleast talk to the morons. It got to the point where after so many attempts I gave up and filed a claim with VISA...If they atleast told me no warranty or gave me an answer Id leave it be.


So I need new shocks, I wanna stick with 14s but want some shorter bodied ones. My current ones are 20.75 collapsed.


I went wheeling for the first time, the droop is insane. I still had 2in or so of more droop from the shock and a good 2-3in more of uptravel. Honestly it would of been easier to just do coilovers, I need longer coils, I have thought of synergy rear JK coils, they have 11.75 of travel from "block height" to free length. these dont have that nearly as much. The synergy front coils have 13.5in of travel from block height to free length but I dont think those will be firm enough for the weight I carry. Any suggestions on long free length coils.


I also need to swap in some new stock leafs. My old ones are OEM have 130k on em and are shot...I have some H3T ones but have they 2 add a leafs in them per side so I wanna pull one or both add a leafs or do the bebe spring mod.


I called up auto zone today to get the carrier bearings for my ox locker, 3 days to get?!? No one else had em...Weird. Anyways I hopefully will install my ox locker soon.


First big trip is at the end of November. I have a ton to do and not much time! I need tires too.


Here are some pics.








My bumper needs to go, I gotta build one but the wings were ticking me off so my buddy and cut the wings off in about 3 minutes. I have a ton of other **** to do but eventually the bumper will be made.




Overall, this hill climb is very rutted out and I would be spinning tires and having to put effort into climbing it. This thing literally crawled itself. I could give my sister the keys and let her drive up it. Its insane. I gotta still figure out the coils. I need a longer free length, I dont want to clamp both ends unless it wont limit flex, out in so cal flex helps alot. My plan to is to synergy rear JK coils. They will be stiffer then the fronts and they list block height and free length. they have around 12in of travel in the spring. The fronts have 13.5 If I use rears I would only unseat my coil 2 inches which is not a big deal if I have my center tube that will keep the coil from falling out. This is very common with jeeps and they will unseat their coil 6in with no ill effects. I want to keep it to a minimum, maybe 2in. As long as the coil is being retained in the spot I am good.
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
Still screwing with the swaybar...I think I am going to end up with the splined bar and have to make my own ends.
Ditto. I'm looking at the Currie system. They have a generic kit that uses a full-length tube...or they have the JK kit that uses the frame mounts I want. Neither is exactly what I need, so I will probably buy the stuff individually. And yes...I'll fab my own arms too. Its the only way to put a dog-leg in to avoid the Nissan box.

I contacted the company wont answer my calls or emails.

So...lets start slingin some ****. Who is it?

I wanna stick with 14s but want some shorter bodied ones. My current ones are 20.75 collapsed.
Uh-oh...You've been talking to the Jeep guys again! I see a trailer in your future. Hah!

Any suggestions on long free length coils.
I like em short & stiff. 77-91 F-150/Bronco...+4 or +6. I know your Jeep buddies disagree but, it will still flex to hell and back! Use just enough coil and shock to get the travel you want. Any more is just wasted effort. If you're really hell-bent on long shocks and flex...then coil-over is probably the way to go. As you've already seen on your first outing...the SAS-H3 is a BEAST! It simply doesn't need the flex numbers that the Jeep guys swear by. The more flex you build in to it...the less practical it is for daily driving. IMO...12" of shock is more than enough.

I also need to swap in some new stock leafs. My old ones are OEM have 130k on em and are shot...I have some H3T ones but have they 2 add a leafs in them per side so I wanna pull one or both add a leafs or do the bebe spring mod.
I'm going to upgrade to urethane bushings in mine. Major articulation means major wear on the stock rubber bushings.

I called up auto zone today to get the carrier bearings for my ox locker, 3 days to get?!? No one else had em...Weird. Anyways I hopefully will install my ox locker soon.
Any GM 8.5/8.6 10-bolt 68 to present. You would have to search high and low to find a more common application.

I need tires too.
37"s! Remember...You may have to raise the ride-height so they don't rub. That will change all of the stuff you're talking about.

I need a longer free length, I dont want to clamp both ends unless it wont limit flex, out in so cal flex helps alot. My plan to is to synergy rear JK coils. They will be stiffer then the fronts and they list block height and free length. they have around 12in of travel in the spring. The fronts have 13.5 If I use rears I would only unseat my coil 2 inches which is not a big deal if I have my center tube that will keep the coil from falling out. This is very common with jeeps and they will unseat their coil 6in with no ill effects. I want to keep it to a minimum, maybe 2in. As long as the coil is being retained in the spot I am good.
No way...not around here. Let me know how that works out.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,505
Location
Meridian, ID
no trailers for me, NEVER. The nice thing is that this is all so interchangeable. If it doesnt work there are 8 million other options to swap around and improve it.

from the beginning, It needs a balance between street and off road. If sucks on road I change it. This thing is a monster. I can already tell. Maybe I am getting to hung up with the RTI ramp score, lol

New shocks are planned to be ordered this week. Hopefully I can get it all situated this week. The Asshats that sold me the shocks are my4by.com
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
Flexing is awesome. Flexing until your spring pops out is not awesome.

I just swapped mine out today. I had originally been using some "alleged" Bronco +4" coils...used and yellow in color. I have no idea what brand they were...got em off Ebay for $40. Anyway...back on the fourth of July I mangled one of them and bent the coil bucket on the passenger side. This happened when I hit some whoops at 30 mph, not realizing the capture plates were loose. So today I swapped them out for a brand new pair of Bronco +4" springs, and bent the upper bucket back into its former shape. These springs are for the OJ style Bronco (that has the F-150 chassis), and they were $140 delivered. The first pic shows the old one (bent) next to the new one (top). It appears the old ones may have been +6" springs cut down...as evidence that the last coil abruptly stops without reducing in diameter like the new ones do. If you are into spring rates and such, you might be able to track that info down with the part number on the box...
attachment.php
attachment.php


A couple dimensions I can share that may help you Chris....

The new coils were approx. 1/2" shorter than the old ones. The truck now sits the same 1/2" shorter at 28" fender-to-hub. The installed PLATE-to-PLATE dimension with the old springs (with the truck weight on them) was 17". The un-installed length was 20"...so with this size of spring, you can expect 3" of compression after install. This might seem quite stiff but, it works well. I did not move my buckets, as the springs were within a 1/2" of being the same length. I'm not expecting any different ride characteristics but, I'll update this thread if anything feels different. I have mine captured on top and bottom, and its important to note that coils will also stretch more than the base length of 20". When flexing like you are in your photos...expect another 3" or so of growth, even with the top captured.

The shocks are Fox 2.0 reservoirs. The eye-to-eye dimension on the mounts is 20" at rest. The shocks have 3" of shaft exposed at rest. The body is 13" long, so I believe they are 12" stroke.
 

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derian06

Red Rockett
Messages
1,866
Location
Madison, AL
I may have asked this question before I forgot. But what happens to the rear axle when you regeared to 5.13? Whoops found it I did ask on the sas spy thread. But anyways did you change out your rear axle as well? I thought we could only fit 4.56's
 
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4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
Most full-size & Jeep guys consider 37"s the practical limit for Dana 44s. Shafts are the weak link, and if you run 37"s, its a good idea to also run cro-mo aftermarket shafts. The diff & gears have a pretty good reputation...especially the hi-pinion version.

A stock 8.6 H3 rear axle is the same piece that's been around for 40 years. You can get many gear-sets for it...2.41 down to 5.38, maybe even lower.
 

silvrzuki77

Well-Known Member
Messages
556
Location
Vegas
Obviously your invested, but if you had to do it over would you have sprung for coilovers instead? Seems it would have been easier in the long run??
 
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