Larger Tires / Better Wheels / Lift Kit .... HELP - PLEASEEEEE !?!?!?

[jakesz28]

Why get fake Beadlocks when you can get real ones?

I said that jokingly. I don't see a need to get new rims unless.
1) the lift requires a different offset.
2) the tires are to wide.
3) your after looks
4) you want function.


I would like a set of actual bead locks, but currently don't get off-road enough to warrant them. If I found a sweat deal on a set I would not hesitate. But a set of lockers may be a better choice for me at this time. I do question the weight and would like to see about some champion bead lock conversions.

 

[Portager]

I said that jokingly. I don't see a need to get new rims unless.
1) the lift requires a different offset.
2) the tires are to wide.
3) your after looks
4) you want function.


I would like a set of actual bead locks, but currently don't get off-road enough to warrant them. If I found a sweat deal on a set I would not hesitate. But a set of lockers may be a better choice for me at this time. I do question the weight and would like to see about some champion bead lock conversions.

Okay.

I agree lockers would be a better investment than Beadlocks. I'd also delete #3 above.

In my case my truck came with 20" chrome wheels so I never had stock wheels. I tried AR wheels but they had too little backspace and the tires stuck out and rubbed the fenders. The Hutchinson's have the 5.84" backspace so they fit like stock wheel. I like my function of the Beadlocks because my wife and I sometimes go out to the desert alone (I know that is a bad idea, but arranging her schedule and mine is pretty hard let alone another capable vehicles driver.) The Beadlocks provide additional security. I won't lose a bead and if I get multiple flats, I could still limp back to the highway/tow truck with zero tire pressure.

 

[alrock]

I don't remember Hummer posting different mileage for steel versus aluminum wheels do you?

Manufacturers don't test and submit every possible combination for mpg even if there's a measurable difference. For example, we've all acknowledged that different size tires, and weight of tires, affect mpg yet they post the same mpg for the passenger car rated 265s vs. the light truck rated 285s. They also don't submit for the 20" chromes and rubber band tires that your truck unfortunately was originally equipped but yet those combinations (or similar) are OEM supplied dealer options that do affect mpg. I lost about 1.5 mpg overall when moving from 265s to 295s. Perhaps that's not much but with 22,000 miles driven each year that's about $470 at $3.75 per gallon.

I know we're talking minute details here and the OE's question was what was the best way to equip his vehicle. If we don't have a budget then yes, Hutchinsons, Rancho lift, 37s, etc. are the way to go. Perhaps most responders - well, at myself - are looking at best value vs. best possible combination.

$1425 in not a negligible amount, at least not for me. It will cover the cost of a winch and a winch mount. Might even cover the cost of some bumpers. It will cover the cost of four tires mounted on those rims.

Best for getting out of a hairy position - yes, I'd go beadlocks. Best bang for buck? I'd stay OEM. Want Rock Star rims? Then, in my opinion, one suddenly moves the justification for new rims away from survival and performance and straight into vanity.

Basically Mike, I think we're pretty much in agreement but discussing two sides of the same coin.

 

[Portager]

I basically agree with you. I was just trying to show my side. I wish I had run my Hutchinson's with my 305/70R16 BFG KM2's so I could have checked the mileage difference. I really don't think you could measure the difference. I did see a reduction in mileage but I think that was mainly due to switching to 315/75R16 tires, not the Hutchinson's.

I know Hutchinson's are outside of most peoples budgets, but Rock Stars are just a waste of money. They are just vanity wheels!

 

[Kurt]

H3Ray,

If your priorities is fuel economy and street ride quality, I would recommend keeping the factory wheels and tires on your truck with the stock lift.

You are posting pictures of trucks with big aggressive tires, and lifts and that will have an impact on fuel economy and depending on the tire choice, ride quality.

A stock H3 can go many places with an experienced driver. Try taking the truck out on a few mild trails and get used to the handling charismatics first, then figure out an upgrade path. Ideally you can fine a fellow experienced H3 off roader to help show you the ropes.

You have to make a choice at some point of looks vs actual use vs your priorities.

If I had an H3, I would go with a leveling kit at a minimum and have BF Goodrich AT's on the truck or KM2's.
With a lift I'd go with the rancho lift. I usually always stick with OEM wheels on my trucks, but thats my truck. You have to pick what's right for you.

I'm a big fan of the hutchinson with beadlocks but that's if you actually plan to regularly take your truck off pavement. Otherwise it's a waste of money and you'll incure extra labor costs dealing with tire installation.

 

[H3Ray]

Thanks - Great Info Here.

Tourqing the Tension bars, adding bump stops and Bilstien shocks should be fine. I will go with maybe the next size wheel up from stock, same with tire. I dont want any long term damage to components. Dont want the H3 too high, just 2-4 inches from stock. 95% street, occasional sand stuff. I like driving ON the Beach and pulling people out, like my way of giving back. Here on east coast Florida, you can actually drive ON THE BEACH!

 

[H3Ray]

Next is a Winch and K & N Air Filter ..... What's the recommended Winch? I want a quality Winch, strong Winch - Ya never know when you need it. I'm in Hurricane Country - South Florida. A winch that goes IN the bumper or sits outside Bumper, better? THANKSSSS GUYSSSS

 

[reaper]

I'm getting new tires today myself... going for P245/65R17s. Gonna be awesome!!!

 

[cbetts]

I'm getting new tires today myself... going for P245/65R17s. Gonna be awesome!!!

Really? That seems awfully small for an H3!

Here is the comparison to what I am running now: :link:

 

[reaper]

Really? That seems awfully small for an H3!

Here is the comparison to what I am running now: :link:

Oh yeah, that's for my wife's Pilot. :shame:

 

[Portager]

Next is a Winch and K & N Air Filter ..... What's the recommended Winch? I want a quality Winch, strong Winch - Ya never know when you need it. I'm in Hurricane Country - South Florida. A winch that goes IN the bumper or sits outside Bumper, better? THANKSSSS GUYSSSS

I asked my service rep at Tustin Hummer about the K&N Air Filter and he indicated that there could be warranty issues. He said it had to do with a sensor downstream that was sensitive to oil fouling. If yours is still under warranty might want to check and see what your service rep says.

As far as winches go there are two mounting options, (1) totally inside the bumper so you keep your approach angle and looks, (2) on a shelf in front of the grille for better access to the drum to prevent and/or correct miss-feeds. I went with the buried winch for better looks because I don't use it very much (ever so far knock on wood). I also opted for synthetic winch line to save weight, safety and because it is easier to feed and correct miss-feeds than steel cable. Once you decide on which placement option you like we can recommend mounts/bumpers and then winches that fit.

 

[cbetts]

I asked my service rep at Tustin Hummer about the K&N Air Filter and he indicated that there could be warranty issues. He said it had to do with a sensor downstream that was sensitive to oil fouling. If yours is still under warranty might want to check and see what your service rep says.

As far as winches go there are two mounting options, (1) totally inside the bumper so you keep your approach angle and looks, (2) on a shelf in front of the grille for better access to the drum to prevent and/or correct miss-feeds. I went with the buried winch for better looks because I don't use it very much (ever so far knock on wood). I also opted for synthetic winch line to save weight, safety and because it is easier to feed and correct miss-feeds than steel cable. Once you decide on which placement option you like we can recommend mounts/bumpers and then winches that fit.

I never had a problem with my dealership and the K&N filter. Then again, I do regular maintenance by cleaning the MAF at every oil change with real MAF cleaner and not carb/TB cleaner.

 

[Kurt]

The K&N filters allow more dirt/dust to get into the combustion process, it'll be measurable as elevated silicon levels in your oil if you send oil change samples to be lab tested.

This will translate in greater wear and tear on internal parts.. I don't chance it, especially off roading in the desert.

If anything I'd put more filtering in the air intake via a precleaner[with snorkel]...

 

[cbetts]

The K&N filters allow more dirt/dust to get into the combustion process, it'll be measurable as elevated silicon levels in your oil if you send oil change samples to be lab tested.

This will translate in greater wear and tear on internal parts.. I don't chance it, especially off roading in the desert.

If anything I'd put more filtering in the air intake via a precleaner[with snorkel]...

That is what the oil is supposed to stop. However, it is hard to find the proper amount of oil on the filter to do the job.

For wheeling, I always run a paper filter. I blow out the dust while I am airing up the tires at the end of the trail.

 

[Hunner]

Wow I guess I was so busy installing a 68 ohm 1/2 watt resistor I missed all this testosterone being blasted about!
A couple or three snatch blocks and you can winch bakards or just have an additional winch on the rear for retreating from a bad situation no matter what wheels and size and type of tires you have.
Internal inflatable bead locks can get a flat.
The proper Hutchinsons were installed on several GM SEMA and show H3's and in their slick color advertising, apparently they approved them.
They have not slowed down my Alpha and with 285 tires I am averaging 14 mpg.
I'm for paper element and pre-filter.
Judging from years of going "winching" I would never "conceal" a winch.
Maybe someday I would replace cable with synthetic but not because of weight. I have seen several get damaged on rocks and pop.
Another "old school" habit, from using metal cable safely for many years, and it came on the winch.
Real men mount their own tires on beadlocks, with help. $85 a tire?? It's not rocket science.
Ok that's all I remember lol but I felt left out.
What was the question???
H3Ray did start a thread that brought out all the options in one place! ha ha

Having said all that, what is wrong with the nice aluminum stock wheels, tires of your choice, winch, protection for the vitals, underneath and go wheel it!! Sort of in that order but depending on where you wheel the winch trumps most things.

 

[Steve #1]

2009 Hummer Alpha - Stock.

Goal: Higher with better capabilities for off road ( if I desire to go off road ).

Now: She's 100% Daily Driver - City Driving - Pavement.

Want To Buy: Better looking wheels / Larger and agressive Tire / Lift Kit ?

Please advise what you all like .... I like Black. Rock Star wheels look cool.

Please tell me what you would do ....

THANKS IN ADVANCE

First, we know you are excited about your truck, but settle down. Read the forum and get some ideas then ask questions AND READ THE RESPONSES.

If you "desire to go offroad" the stock H3 will do just fine. More aggressive tires is the only thing you may need depending on what the stock tires are. If you get the bug and want to get serious about offroading you'll probably want more aggressive tires. Cranking the t-bars isn't required but it's free, gives a little front end clearance, and most people think it makes the truck look better.

So, to answer your question, consider more aggressive tires.

I have a stock base H3 with under body protection and mud terrains. The only time I've ever not been able to go somewhere other H3s were going was Hell's Gate because at the time I didn't have siders....... so now I have sliders.

It seems you are more interested in looks, so get whatever you think looks good.

 

[Schwarttzy]

I didn't realize you had firsthand knowledge on Hutchinson Beadlocks. Are your conclusions based on test data or analysis?

Well you actually just provide me with all the data I need in that post, like the Aluminum rims are just under 50% lighter, in my book that is huge. First a bigger tire has no effect on gas mileage (in a perfect world), the reason bigger tires do have a affect on gas mileage is because in general they are heavier and they have more rolling resistances from a bigger contact surface. And your right that those rims would have no effect when your at speed and not slowing down or speeding up, but every time you change speed it is costing you mileage. There really is no good way to dispute me because you would be fighting the current theories on physics.

Your goal always should be to have the least amount of rotating mass, there is no way around that. And as for you friend, with the H2, I'm sorry to hear that the beads weren't seated properly, but not that sorry... because it sounds exactly like the first problem they ask you to check for. Also just because you "know someone with a bad experience" doesn't mean every one will "have a bad experience."

Now the tires aren't making huge gains or losses, but in the end every little bit helps.

 

[reaper]

Reminds me of a quote from a cheesy hummer video posted last week: "you don't buy a hummer for gas mileage, you buy a hummer to run over stuff!"

 

[Portager]

Well you actually just provide me with all the data I need in that post, like the Aluminum rims are just under 50% lighter, in my book that is huge. First a bigger tire has no effect on gas mileage (in a perfect world), the reason bigger tires do have a affect on gas mileage is because in general they are heavier and they have more rolling resistances from a bigger contact surface. And your right that those rims would have no effect when your at speed and not slowing down or speeding up, but every time you change speed it is costing you mileage. There really is no good way to dispute me because you would be fighting the current theories on physics.

Your goal always should be to have the least amount of rotating mass, there is no way around that. And as for you friend, with the H2, I'm sorry to hear that the beads weren't seated properly, but not that sorry... because it sounds exactly like the first problem they ask you to check for. Also just because you "know someone with a bad experience" doesn't mean every one will "have a bad experience."

Now the tires aren't making huge gains or losses, but in the end every little bit helps.

Apparently the entire moment of inertia discussion was over your head or you choose to ignore it. But then you choose to ignore everything that didn't support your argument. My point was that the effect of the weight of the Hutchinson's on mileage was negligible not non-existent. You also choose to ignore Hunner's real world results.

They have not slowed down my Alpha and with 285 tires I am averaging 14 mpg.

My Alpha also averaged 14 mpg with 285 tires and aluminum wheels, so the difference is not measurable.

The Inflatable beadlocks have been around a long time. I suggest you make a table with two columns. On the left, list all the people on this forum that are using Inflatable Beadlocks, on the right list all the people on this forum that are using Hutchinson Beadlocks. Then ask yourself if you really want to argue with the collective wisdom in the right column. You can ever start a poll on beadlocks and see which beadlocks people prefer.

What Rugged H2 said is that the beads were seated properly before he left for Moab, but after hundreds of miles on the highway the beads shifted and he couldn't air down. Rugged H2 was also the only person that I could find that had any experience with inflatable beadlocks on a Hummer.

How about if you go and get yourself a set of inflatable beadlock and then post your 50,000 mile test results.

 

[alrock]

Aside from the Schwarttzy discussion, and while respectful of the mpg that Hunner got, I think it is difficult to compare one driver to another as the right foot does more to affect mpg than any other factor. A better measure is with the same vehicle before and after the change. Also not sure if 14 mpg is worth bragging rights

If wheel weight doesn't make a material difference then why do manufacturers, racers and performance oriented owners strive for lighter wheels?

 

[Neo]

looks like we've replaced the steering rack thread ...:yay

 

[Portager]

Aside from the Schwarttzy discussion, and while respectful of the mpg that Hunner got, I think it is difficult to compare one driver to another as the right foot does more to affect mpg than any other factor. A better measure is with the same vehicle before and after the change. Also not sure if 14 mpg is worth bragging rights

If wheel weight doesn't make a material difference then why do manufacturers, racers and performance oriented owners strive for lighter wheels?

The weight of the wheel makes a difference on race cars and performance cars. Especially for drag racing. Not so much on off road vehicles. Despite what my wife might say I don't drive my T like a race car. As I said before the weight of the tire has a much larger effect on the moment of inertia than the rim does.

I guess I could put my Cooper STT 315/75R16 tires on my American Racing aluminum wheels and check my mileage before and after on a closed course, but that would require way too much effort on my part for to settle a useless argument. I like my Hutchinson's and I'm not switching back! We can agree to disagree for all I care.

 

[Hans3T]

 

[jakesz28]

While I'm not an engineer, a good friend is and I work in the field that some of this is common knowledge. I would have to say, yes the weight of the wheel has less effect then the weight of the tire. The farther away from the center line the more effect it has. So a good portion of the weight of the wheel is at a distance approximately eight inches from the centerline. This means it does has a big effect.
Why is it a drag racer will center drill the entire axle? Because it all adds up!
So you add weight to the tire to gain tread. Then you add weight to the tire to gain clearance. Now you add weight to the rim for beedlocks. So you have what, an approximately 40 pounds weight. The tire is spinning at xxxx rpm based on gear reduction and engine rpm, now add torque multification of the torque converter if your running an automatic transmission. What happens when that tire grabs a solid rock?

 

[Expendable]

:corn:

Gotta love comparing a drag car designed to go quick in a straight line (and I'm guessing not street legal) to a truck designed to function on and off road.