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Where is this shuddring/vibe coming from?

mikesbaron

Member
Messages
13
Location
Utah
on my 2008 I get an intense shuddering, pulse type thing with my vehicle as I'm slowing to a stop. It felt like warped rotors, so I replaced them all. I still get it. So I checked out my lower ball joints up front and yes they are toast. Could that be the cause of the intense shuddering?
 

mikesbaron

Member
Messages
13
Location
Utah
Previously I've replaced entire control arm so any tips on doing just the ball joints? Heat, soak with oil? Pound with hammer? Use a bearing puller?
 

DJB

Member
Messages
10
Location
Traverse City MI
Agree, could be a bad ABS sensor. Easy diagnosis; disconnect a wheel speed sensor. ABS warning light will come on and the system will be inoperative. Road test it - if the shimmy is gone, it's certainly a bad sensor. Now you'll need a scan tool that's capable of reading live data from the wheel speed sensors. Plug the one you disconnected back in, have someone drive while you watch the wheel speed sensor data. At lower speeds, the bad one will read zero or at least significantly slower than the others.
 

alrock

El Diablo
Staff member
Messages
10,674
Location
Scottsdale
Lower ball joints should come out with a ball joint press and an impact wrench. Might need to hammer in any detents put in by the factory and add some penetrating oil for good measure.
 

Happy Hummer

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,465
Location
Wisconsin
Ill share my personal experience. The rear speed sensors are tricky to get out and great patients and care was needed but it is doable. They were about $125 ish for the two to purchase iirc. The front hubs were absolutely a ba$tard and I've done approximately 6 times across to H3's. When trying to remove for first time on gf's old 06 H3 they were horrible in a sick demented way lol! On my 07 they were worse or equally horrible. But there was no way in hel! I was going to pay $700 per wheel.

I'd just start by replacing the to rear sensors the go right to the front hubs. We chose Moog and Timken.
 

mikesbaron

Member
Messages
13
Location
Utah
Thanks for the insight on ABS sensors, I never thought of that. I have alot of play in my right wheel, back and forth movement. Ball joint on bottom is shot. UCA bushings shot. I'm going to replace those items, plus sway bar links and tie rod ends since they all need it anyways while I have it apart. If that doesn't fix I'll go to the rear ABS. Is there a good video or advice on removing the rear ones?
 

JPaul

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,436
Location
Way up north, UT
What's so hard about the speed sensors on either axle? The rear's are right there on the back of the axle, just one 10mm bolt and they're out, just have to unhook the strain relief in the wheel well and unplug them. Pretty much the same for the fronts as well, though I think you might need to take the wheel off first.
 

mikesbaron

Member
Messages
13
Location
Utah
What's so hard about the speed sensors on either axle? The rear's are right there on the back of the axle, just one 10mm bolt and they're out, just have to unhook the strain relief in the wheel well and unplug them. Pretty much the same for the fronts as well, though I think you might need to take the wheel off first.

Yeah that's what I was thinking! I've done them before on a Nissan Quest van and they were as easy as one bolt and a retaining connector.
 

Jeepwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
979
Location
WI
1) OReilly's rents out a ball joint press ...basically for free, around here. They require a deposit, but you get it back when you return the tool. Check with the parts stores, in your area.

2) You may need to insert a pickle-fork to remove the spindle, but you're going to replace the ball joints anyway. Check the bellows on the outside edges of your steering rack too. I had one that was cracked all the way around, and had to go back later on and remove both tie rods a second time to replace. I found some reasonably priced on ebay.

3) Steering intermediate shaft - Just a suggestion: if I were doing the same project all over again on my vehicle, considering the rest of your font end parts are shot, I would strongly consider spending a little more $$ and replace your rig's intermediate steering shaft. I'd bet dollars-to-doughnuts it has excess 'play' in it. There are actually two shafts. Just a little micro-play in either U-joint, or the flexible coupler can transmit into looseness you can feel at the steering wheel. Even if you replace your tie rods and ball joints, it might not feel as 'tight' as it might if you replace a worn intermediate shaft. It bears checking: Put a vice grips on the input shaft of the steering rack, rope the vice-grips tight to the frame or some way it can't move. Then wiggle your steering wheel and see if there's some micro-movement there. Mine had slop on both shafts. Replacing it has made it steer like new again. Brought back that "like a new vehicle tightness".

I bought aftermarket intermediate shafts. Doing it over, I would spring for the extra $80 and buy the AC Delco intermediate shafts. Mine wasn't as great of a fit as it could have been and the alignment (trueness) was piss-poor that required extra alignment work. But other than that, it works fine. The reason I advocate replacing it during the rest of your front end build is b/c once you finish and get the wheels aligned your steering wheel will be nice and square like it should be. If you go back and later replace the intermediate shafts afterwards there's a strong probability it won't be welded 100% like the original shaft and therefore your steering wheel would be out of 'square' going down the road ....and require a tow adjustment. So, doing it up front prior to the final alignment saves ya having to (most likely) re-do the alignment a second time. As others have reminded me here, if you drop your steering column (needed to replace the intermediate shafts), don't allow the steering wheel to rotate. That could cause the steering angle sensor clock-spring to break. I just dropped mine down onto the driver's seat and no problems.

4) Spread grease on steering joints you aren't replacing: Here's a thought: If some of the steering parts feel 'good' and you don't replace them. Rotate the ball studs throughout their range of motion to work grease back into the actual joint. Some of these joints believe it or not have nylon as part of the joint ...like the upper ball joints. Yes, the ball stud *IS* polished and that helps, but if you move the ball-studs around you can re-spread grease that's still under the boot back into the joint and feel them become re-lubricated. I'm convinced if owners did this every 40k miles, they could extend the life of the ball joints and other steering joints probably indefinitely. But of course nobody does that.

5) Inspect axle up/down 'play' on both inboard axle CV pods where they enter the front diff. Check for excessive up/down movement (jack the wheel up a little to remove axle preload). There will be "some" movement, but if you detect what seems excessive, replacing the outer diff bearings while the control arms are OFF the vehicle would be a major time-saver ....compared to coming back later and removing steering linkages again.

6) I just re-aligned mine myself. Got it dead nuts on the money. Not that you should ...but last few alignments I've gotten were a crock of crap and the shops, which I thought were decent shops, did a lousy job. What a waste of money. Plus, if you look at the specs they're pretty wide. You can use your phone as an accurate level to adjust camber and get the caster close enough with some creativity. Tow-in is easy too on a rig like ours with such large tires. If you feel up to it, put the alignment money towards other new parts. Otherwise find a good shop and don't let them get away with less than satisfactory work.

7) I never install rotors anymore w/o checking the run-out with a dial indicator. Just b/c they're new rotors doesn't mean anything. A lot of so-called new rotors come 'pre-warped'. Also, it could be rust on the hub mating surface too. W/o checking them you have no way to know if one is warped, which one it is ... both? ....and by how much? A lot of shops just slap on new rotors and if people don't come back (they usually don't), then they're good. But I would measure them if I were you. I've found O'Reilly's to be pretty reliably good rotors and rarely have a bad one.

Once you get all your front end parts installed, consider making sure the wheel hubs are clean right to the original tooling marks (or file any rust off till you see the tooling marks), and verify run-out. That will quickly eliminate any question about ABS sensors or warped rotors. You should be able to get new rotors to within .001" of run-out ..and I like to have mine at .0005" or better. If it's not good, then rotate 1 stud clockwise, recheck ...and keep going till you get them 100% on the money to about .001", or try another rotor if you can't. So, while you are out gathering parts, buy 8x oversized nuts which will fit over your wheel studs (probably 5/8" or 3/4" nuts) so you can secure the rotor with your lug nuts (you need something to take up the space where your wheel would have been). You want 8x because once you get one rotor 'on the money' you can leave 2 on the completed side and have 6x left while you work on the second wheel. And since you've experienced pulsing, I would also measure the inside edge of each rotor to ensure parallelism is good. And of course, make sure all caliper sliding surfaces are filed clean of any rust. I use Permatex Ultra Brake lube, on sliding brake parts ...a good product. I also apply anti-sieze on the backside of new rotors and the wheel hub too. Keeps them from rusting back up. But thats up to you. I tend to go over the top but it prevents problems down the road? And, have you considered flushing out your rigs old brake fluid with new? Sorry ....where does it end, right!? Ha ha...

NOTE: Bear in mind if you bleed out (flush) your old brake fluid and replace it with new, take extra precaution you don't run out of fluid in the process and introduce air into the system. It's not the end of the world should that happen, but if it were to happen you would need a scan tool capable of putting the ABS pump/system into the 'Bleed mode' in which it cycles the valves and runs the pump in a proscribed manner for bleeding out trapped air. It's pretty hard to get out trapped air w/o doing that. The dealer could do it for you, but not running dry on fluid in the first place is a lot less hassle. I only bring it up b/c this summer I did just THAT on a Jeep I was working on. Stupid me! The lighting wasn't the best and sometimes it hard to see the level of new (clear) fluid. I have access to a scan tool that does does bleeding mode, but it created a lot of unnecessary extra work. If everyone could learn from my mistakes it would be a better world! :) Ha ha!!

Good luck, sorry for the Looooong post. Let us know if you have other questions as you do your steering work.
 
Last edited:

Jeepwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
979
Location
WI
Sorry ... I DID get carried away, didn't I? Ha ha...

I just went through all that myself and piecemealed most of those same replacement tasks one by one and was a lot more work than if I'd done them all at once.
:banghead:
 
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