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Squeaky SAS thread

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
You'll want to clamp the top end of that coil to the bucket...don't rely on vehicle weight alone. No way I would trust that rubber donut and piece of tube to keep that spring seated in place. Its very possible your suspension will out-droop the spring tension...not good. I got into some whoops over the 4th of July (approx. 30 mph) and completely bounced my coil springs off the sides of buckets. Bent the crap out of the springs and the buckets. After inspection, I realized the capture plates had come loose. Whatever the method, get your springs bolted in tight...metal on metal is fine.

Today I cut some small pins (1/2" long) from 1/2" bar stock. I plan to weld three of them to the bucket surface, just inboard of the coil. They are shorter than the thickness of the spring stock, so when I clamp the capture plate down tight, it still does its job. The idea is that even if the plate works loose...the three pins will keep the coil centered on the bucket, and prevent it from sliding off to one side. Extreme suspension like this pretty much requires that the spring be mechanically attached top & bottom...especially in the terrain you like to tackle. I under-estimated the importance of this and never really re-checked the capture plate bolts after I got things assembled. I paid for that one. Next time...those bitches will be tight, and the springs will not be allowed to move or rotate whatsoever!

4" up-travel between the DL and TR is about what I got. Just make sure the bump stop limits the travel to 3"...otherwise, you'll be breaking stuff. If you do end up keeping that donut on top of the coils, make sure to account for that in the bump-stop travel as well. It might seem stiff but, that donut could give you additional squish when you drop 3000 lbs on it at 30 mph. At all costs...you do not want to shove that tie-rod upward and into the pitman arm.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,505
Location
Meridian, ID
I thought putting some rubber in there was a good thing. Every Jeep with a solid axle has stock rubber inserts, is there a reason? I just thought metal on metal was bad but I will take your word for it.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,505
Location
Meridian, ID
hey CJ, If these JK coils are too soft have you ever thought about the coils off of a toyota land cruiser, the FZJ80 to be exact. There stock curb weight is almost identical to ours. 4500-4700 lbs depending on options. Were about 4700 lbs stock. Seeing they are overland type vehicles I am sure the aftermarket designs there springs to carry the extra load.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,505
Location
Meridian, ID
not yet. Probably will tomorrow...Just discussing coils. Hes running bronco coils. Some say JK coils are too soft. I will find out and if they are I think land cruiser coils will be good. They are the same weight as us.
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
I looked hard at comparable vehicles for the coil springs. One thing I wanted to keep in mind was "availability". Obviously the JK and TJ were first on the list...and they might be the ticket if flex is your main goal but, they seemed a tad light for the heavy H3. Another application that kept appearing over & over, was the Ford Bronco (F150)...specifically, the big 81-96 OJ-Series. Coils for these trucks are literally everywhere...come a bunch of lift sizes...and they're very affordable ($120). The outside spring diameter is the same as Jeep coils, and they fit the THORparts brackets (and most others) without any issues.

I just bought some brand new Pro-Comp +4" Bronco springs, and I am anxious to try them out. These are the same wire size as the ones I bent on July 4th...but they are shorter. I will adjust the coil-buckets accordingly when I swap them, to keep the same basic ride height. They should be slightly stiffer. My hope is that they will limit the droop more than the longer ones I'm currently running. I am not running straps, so the springs are what stops the droop. Yes...I said "limit". I know that goes against crawler gospel but, I'm trying to perfect the SA set-up and make a better daily driver. I have more flex with the SA...than I have balls to push it! So I'm scaling back on the travel to hopefully improve the street manners. Sway bar is coming too.

Both sets of Bronco springs I have, are fixed-rate (coils are the same spacing throughout the entire length). Not sure a variable-rate spring does much with only 4" of up-travel...after all you're only using the first 4" of them, so I cannot imagine there is much to "vary" in that rather short distance. Since the bump stops are so close to the pads, it makes since to me to use a constant-rate spring. This means you don't have to pass thru the "soft range" of a variable rate spring, before you get to the real stiff range. On the H3...you need that stiffness immediately because you only have 4" to work with.

Also, I also have a pair of +6" JK springs that belong to a customer and they are noticeably thinner gauge wire. I might throw them on just for comparison but, my initial reaction is that they are too long and too thin for daily duty. I'm sure they would compress at rest and store potential energy but, that's the opposite goal I'm trying to achieve.

Toyota springs? Yeah sure but, the price and choices will probably be at a disadvantage compared to something domestic.

Rubber spring pads? Only reason I can guess for using them is to quiet down the suspension. No "bong" or "clunks" while flexing. I plan to have my capture plates so damn tight...they won't make any noise, even without pads. Lesson learned.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,505
Location
Meridian, ID
Installed power steering lines then drove it!! JK coils are too soft no surprise I guess lol will start posting tech later time for work. Now it's time to work out the kinks
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,505
Location
Meridian, ID
I drove it about 20 miles. It is very smooth believe it or not. The more I drive it the less I am convinced the JK coils are a bad choice. They might be but my rear shocks are toast. So bad that I was having some body roll with both sway bars hooked up with the IFS before I cut it off. I am going to replace the rear shocks first and see what it does. I have class now but I will drop it off for an alignment afterwords. I am getting stoked!!!!
 

ReconH3

Guardian Angel
Messages
2,288
Location
Raleigh, NC
Even though I have Fox Coilovers, ORE set them up like a JK, and they're definitely way too soft. Unfortunately I haven't had time to get them revalved and springs changed. What saves me is that I have the fox hydraulic bump stops that helps control everything.


"Ex Umbris Venimus"
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,505
Location
Meridian, ID
I like the thought of tuning towards an FZJ80 land cruiser. They are similar to our stock weight and they are usually overlander type rigs so aftermarket springs may be tuned perfectly to us seeing we normally add tons of unnecessary crap to our vehicles...If your extremely heavy bronco coils will probably work well too. I know CJ likes his and he doesnt have that much extra weight.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,505
Location
Meridian, ID
Figured I would add in some tech, you can only do so much with plasti dip! Power steering was a huge mystery for me. You can source these out individually but it is probably cheaper to go through ThorParts because some of the parts needed are multi pack and you only need one.

For the power steering you need 3 adapters. One for the pump and 2 for the box.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BRG-925121

http://www.jegs.com/i/Russell/799/670520/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/100705/10002/-1

After you put these adapters in the pump and box you need to go get lines made. The adapters all make it -6AN fittings for the hookup of the line. Go to Napa or a hydraulic line shop and have them make 2 lines. Both lines should be 54in long. This will leave plenty of slack. Take out your old stock lines. One line is the high pressure line. It must be rated for high pressure it has a JIC 90 degree elbow -6AN female fitting. then 54in of high pressure line and a straight swivel JIC -6AN line.

The other line is the return. Its a 54in line also but has a -6AN JIC 90 degree elbow and then the other end is open with just hose that slips onto the bottom of the pump.

The pressure line is the smaller 14mm opening the return is the 16mm bigger opening in the box.
 

owlxxx

Well-Known Member
Messages
345
Location
Tehachapi, CA
Thanks for the power steering info, i've been following yours and others SAS threads and keeping notes. I appreciate the willingness to share what you've learned.
 

poncho1965

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,263
Location
Ridgecrest, California
How about custom springs? I got some for my Odyssey from a outfit in Iowa. Progressive and slightly taller. I couldn't be happier with them, believe they were less then 200 for the set.


Mike
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,505
Location
Meridian, ID
I drove it for the first time to work. 42 miles round trip. I took side streets. Ill be quite honest, I thought 4speedfunk was nuts for running those bronco coils. I thought those would be so damn stiff they would rattle your teeth out but after every mile I put on squeaky with the JK springs the more and more I believe bronco coils will still allow flex and still allow nice ride quality. Its all about a happy medium and to be quite honest I truly thought JK springs would be a happy medium but I am wrong.

I am enjoying the 5.13s but the JK springs gotta go, I need an alignment too. I wish I had more updates but its tough to get them. After the spring over I drove it and was done, it kicked ass I was happy 100% and I never touched a damn thing in the rear for 2 years. The front is a totally different animal. I know I will get to that point where one day I post up going nuts on how awesome it is but as of now it takes more tuning...I am #6 on the list for SAS and #2 on coil springs. This is expected.
 

Panzer07

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,548
Location
Ontario, CA
Hell yeah man glad to see squeaky on all four again that set up look mean...as well the need for 37-8's is evident. Great job Chris ! :thumbs:


"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
-Mark Twain-
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,505
Location
Meridian, ID
Tires are after the coils and new rear leafs. My leafs are so trashed. Have 130k on em and they are bent from all the rockcrawling, the rubber pads are all gone. I have stock H3T springs from hans with 2 add a leafs. CJ said H3T leafs sit lower then regular 3 springs, he has tried T springs...I may take out one add a leaf then. I want the height to be the same as it is now.

Once I get it riding nice with new coils, alignment etc. I will then do new tires. I am thinking 365/75r16 KM2s or Interco 37x12.5x16 Trxus Mt. They are intercos version of the KM2 and MT/R.

Connor, that bumper is thrashed. Stock, the metal portion had a few inches between the bumper and framerail. Now the bumper is pushed up just barely touching the framerail. I plan to either make my own or buy a THORparts bumper and ditch the factory one. The plastic also moves a lot because it has been pulled off the H3 multiple times but it does pop right back in.

[video]http://www.tubechop.com/watch/3525319[/video]
 
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