Ring and Pinion help

[Bigunit]

Damn Chris, this saga just keeps going in a downward trend and from bad to worse. I hope it all works out for you in the end, sooner rather than later! What a ducking mess!

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapataint

 

[06 H3]

I know 2014 sucks so far for squeaky but it is what it is. I'm going into this with confidence though, I just regeared and locked up a jeep with a friend and its running great! So I plan to fix up mine, ill probably need new bearings seeing the diff was hot as hell compared to the rear and a master rebuild kit would be nice too.

My gears got a custom "heat treat" lol drive with fluid flying out and your good to go!

I noticed this when I got to work I kind of wallowed in my self pity but said enough is enough. I have new criteria...
1) If possible (time restraints can effect this) all future work will be done by me.
2) if it isn't I will do a full search for any bad review on the shop or person if I find anything bad I will not go there.
3) if it is done at a shop they must be within 50 miles from my location so I can easily check up on it when I please
4) big purchases use American Express as I have a better chance to get my money back with them. I'm not looking to screw anyone and will gladly pay anyone for good work but I don't want to get screwed like I did this time.

 

[MaxPF]

jesus, your so knowledgable. lol

Meh, not so much. I just find it interesting.

Well driving home I had vibrations and its not driving right. With a ****ed up locker, vibrations and seeing all the other **** the axle comes out tomorrow and I will be rebuilding it myself. I now want my money back...I wish I paid with American Express. Lesson learned.

That sucks

 

[MaxPF]

I know 2014 sucks so far for squeaky but it is what it is. I'm going into this with confidence though, I just regeared and locked up a jeep with a friend and its running great! So I plan to fix up mine, ill probably need new bearings seeing the diff was hot as hell compared to the rear and a master rebuild kit would be nice too.

Hot as hell could be three things: Oil loss will do it, of course. Or the gears are set up too tight. Or the bearings have too much preload. I've seen the latter when guys think more preload will reduce pinion and/or ring gear deflection. All it does is burn up the bearings. Same with setting the backlash too tight. When you put it back together don't try to outsmart the engineers who designed it.

 

[06 H3]

Hmm I chose possibility 4. All of the above! He set preload and backlash tight to help deflection and I lost oil too.

Sounds like the best way to prevent deflection is like Jantz engineering did with "load bolts" gently pushing on the bearing caps.

 

[MaxPF]

Hmm I chose possibility 4. All of the above! He set preload and backlash tight to help deflection and I lost oil too.

Yeah, that's not good.

Sounds like the best way to prevent deflection is like Jantz engineering did with "load bolts" gently pushing on the bearing caps.

You're referring to a bearing cap girdle? If the caps are squirming around under load it will certainly help. IIRC, Carl did an actual "load bolt" on a D60. If you have ever seen an Eaton HO72 they have a bolt with a hard plastic tip threaded into a boss in the side if the third member. The plastic tip sits a few thou away from a smooth section of the carrier on the outside of the ring gear bolts, directly opposite of where the pinion engages the ring gear. If the carrier deflects it will bump into the load bolt and be stopped. The HO72 also has a saddle bearing on the pinion just like the 14bff and Ford 9" (the 14bff was based directly off the Eaton HO72, and in fact you can swap 14bff carriers into an Eaton 3rd member). Between the load bolt and the saddle bearing the gears in an HO72 simply cannot deflect away from one another. There are some hardcore guys on Pirate running the old Eatons and you never hear of R&P breakage. Good thing too, because they haven't been made in decades...

 

[bebe]

For what it's worth, the people on Pirate are full of themselves and IMO really haven't contributed much to the survival of the human race. 4x4 gear heads and wrench monkeys have a purpose in life but it's a very small purpose and seem to come and go. Don't lose your passion Chris and keep on truckin'.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapataint

I guess we all have our opinions about Pirate, and I completely disagree with yours. I'm trying to separate the emotion from the facts here - something you should be very familiar with Luis.

From my perspective, both Chris and Dean are my friends, asking me to get in the middle of this issue is inappropriate on so many levels. I make a referral and somehow I'm held responsible for the outcome? Really?

I've read through the threads, and I am willing to help decipher the issue that these two friends of mine are having. But I will not get into the emotional bullsh**t. How do you react when two friends start a fight? I usually start with telling them both to STFU and settle down.

Chris, you mentioned that the stator had a tab spot welded onto it. Did it look like this one?
http://image.fourwheeler.com/f/3063...3_z+eaton_electric_locker+stator_assembly.jpg

The other issues I read about were the pinion seal? What was wrong with it exactly? I know it leaked but did you re-torque it before you connected the drive line? If you did, you would have noticed the issue and been able to correct it.

Wiring, as you can see from the photo above there are 2 wires. It's really impossible to screw that up internally. Agree? If it's not working then something is ass backwards. If it's blowing fuses something is ass backwards, and I doubt it has anything to do with the stator. But if you think about it, the wire connections on the stator are fixed, and come that way from the factory. It should have come with assembly instructions in the box, mine did.

Him taking a long time (any custom machinist for that matter), is not unusual. Yep, it's frustrating. I'm not going to make excuses, but the Hummer took 10 months, and the FZJ80 took 14 months. I don't know why it took so long, it just did. Sometimes other orders come in and get a higher priority, that's just how it works when you are a one man show.

Sierra R&P is not a re-boxer, they cut their own. I've been to the shop in Rancho Cordova.

Please let me know what other issues I can help you address with Dean.

Bebe

 

[06 H3]

I guess we all have our opinions about Pirate, and I completely disagree with yours. I'm trying to separate the emotion from the facts here - something you should be very familiar with Luis.

From my perspective, both Chris and Dean are my friends, asking me to get in the middle of this issue is inappropriate on so many levels. I make a referral and somehow I'm held responsible for the outcome? Really?

I've read through the threads, and I am willing to help decipher the issue that these two friends of mine are having. But I will not get into the emotional bullsh**t. How do you react when two friends start a fight? I usually start with telling them both to STFU and settle down.

Chris, you mentioned that the stator had a tab spot welded onto it. Did it look like this one?
http://image.fourwheeler.com/f/30633948+w600+re0/154_0910_03_z%2Beaton_electric_locker%2Bstator_assembly.jpg

The other issues I read about were the pinion seal? What was wrong with it exactly? I know it leaked but did you re-torque it before you connected the drive line? If you did, you would have noticed the issue and been able to correct it.

Wiring, as you can see from the photo above there are 2 wires. It's really impossible to screw that up internally. Agree? If it's not working then something is ass backwards. If it's blowing fuses something is ass backwards, and I doubt it has anything to do with the stator. But if you think about it, the wire connections on the stator are fixed, and come that way from the factory. It should have come with assembly instructions in the box, mine did.

Him taking a long time (any custom machinist for that matter), is not unusual. Yep, it's frustrating. I'm not going to make excuses, but the Hummer took 10 months, and the FZJ80 took 14 months. I don't know why it took so long, it just did. Sometimes other orders come in and get a higher priority, that's just how it works when you are a one man show.

Sierra R&P is not a re-boxer, they cut their own. I've been to the shop in Rancho Cordova.

Please let me know what other issues I can help you address with Dean.

Bebe

Bebe, I appreciate the help and the recommendation. I dont want you to have to pick sides or get in between, its my problem between him and me and do not accuse you for the situation I am in. I also understand if you are skeptical to offer recommendations in the future to avoid possible problems. Not trying to kiss ass but just look at it from your point of view, you tried to help me out. Now onto the actual work. If he told me it will take 8 months to do I would of said ok thats fine. I would have bought a spare diff, and that is what I am actually doing. I have come to the realization that as I continue to tackle tougher trails and if I dont go the route of you or 4speed caliber rigs I need to have a bolt in spare diff ready to go sitting in my garage. So I can have minimal downtime and fix stuff on my own time. He kept saying yea, its almost done. Yea its almost done then told me he cryoed the broken R&P. If he just told me straight up from the get go you are a small customer compared to big orders I wouldnt be offended. Its just I wasted days off and setting up plans when I was told I would have something when I wouldnt.

The Pinion seal issue was that it was non existent. There was no pinion seal in the diff, a ripped seal would be dripping fluid, when I filled it up it was pouring out the backend. I took off the yoke and there was no seal. I put one on and he said he would pay for a seal and new fluid. Very nice of him. Orielly auto wouldnt take a payment over the phone. He would paypal me but has not yet. He said if he didnt to call him as he probably forgot. I get hes busy...

The yoke: My driveshaft would not go on. I looked closely and it looked like it was dropped to where the metal chipped leaving small protrusions of metal interfering with the u joint caps. I grinded it down and all was well.

The locker wont work, I installed and wired up my rear locker with no issues. When you give the unit power I dont even hear it engage. I tried to power it via the battery and a battery charger. Both types did not work, when I did my rear locker both types of power worked. That is how I came to the conclusion that the locker isnt working.

The locker DOES look like that. the stator bolts behind the bearing cap. My bad, I have seen 4-5 Eaton E lockers, from front to rear, and every single one I have seen are like this.



The 2 clip things on the stator keep the stator from fully rotating and hit up against the housing.

On top of that, the CI housing has 2 predrilled holes from the factory he drilled one right next to the locker predrilled hole. Which isnt a big deal but factor in all the other things that happened I came to a conclusion that things got are not right.

When I realized he cryoed a broken R&P, took forever after not meeting atleast 3 deadlines with no expression of why, an extra drilled hole, a missing pinion seal, a non working locker (which is probably defective), and a ****ed up yoke I thought I came to a strong conclusion that it was welded on and dropped due to never seeing a setup like that and all the other issues I had.

With all that said, maybe I shouldnt have wrote on a bad review on pirate but to be honest to get him to take some action I thought this was the only way to get his attention.

I looked on pirate and found no other bad reviews of him. So obviously this is an isolated incident but the pinion seal put me over the edge especially when everyone else has had nothing but good things how can he forget a pinion seal.

It drove fine for a while then something went wrong and leaked. So with all that said I pulled the shafts and the diff is still in. I havent had time to look at it...

I told the pirate guys I would have pictures of the issues after work. I came home sick today so I will have my brother take some pictures.

I am willing to pull my ****ty review off pirate, when its all fixed up. First thing I gotta do is contact him and see whats going on. Obviously this locker needs to be warrantied.

 

[Zach]

A standard GM replacement part does not come with instructions. Accessory add on parts do. I checked prices with my gear guy before I ordered the GM one, he was a tad higher. That one may have come with instructions. Idk.
If it is in fact that the locker is bad, I can warranty it

 

[06 H3]

Thanks Zach! Last thing I need to check is how to reinstall it the carrier and shims.

He said he made a case spreader

 

[Medic_Morgan]

Where are you getting a spare CI Diff?! I want/need to upgrade


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[06 H3]

Not sure it's CI. Just want a spare to avoid downtime

 

[06 H3]

With my new to me CI diff I got from dana 60 H3 I regeared it with 4.56s and got new halfshafts from Zach. Did all that tonight. No leaks no noises no issues so far. Now to pull the locker out and have it warrantied.

Can't believe I set up a whole diff and installed it in one night. I have been sitting on the sidelines for 3 months when it could of been done in one day. If I ever send something out again I will have a spare diff.







When I cracked open the bad diff this is what was holding the stator in place. Doesn't look like an eaton factory piece...

 

[06 H3]

After doing this is it continued to build up confidence in axle work and lastly I'm just so ecstatic to be back in 4wd. Tomorrow I will hit some local trails...squeaky lives again!

 

[alrock]

Congrats!

BTW, how are you using those 60lb dumbbells in the install process?

 

[4speedfunk]

60lb dumbbells...so true. Now can someone explain how a 60lb. axle assembly ever got approved for use in this truck? -Ha

Glad you got it back together, Chris. Someone that wheels as much as you do needs to keep a fresh AAM-7 back-up on the shelf at all times (or maybe even inside the truck!).

 

[RamRod]

Congrats man! Tomorrow's trails will be so satisfying for you, enjoy them!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[06 H3]

Thanks guys! Put about 50 new on her so far and all is well...didn't get to really go wheeling but hope to after work.

Getting the carrier out of the one is a real pita

 

[06 H3]

I thought I would mention this diff doesn't have the solid differential end mounts like my last 2 did. I can definitely feel a difference in looseness.

 

[4speedfunk]

this diff doesn't have the solid differential end mounts like my last 2 did.

Too bad. Thats the real reason AAM-7's break so easily...the outboard bushings.

 

[amrg]

Btw shouldnt you break in the ring pinion before you go offroading?

 

[06 H3]

Too bad. Thats the real reason AAM-7's break so easily...the outboard bushings.

I have them on my other diff just have to swap them over

 

[06 H3]

Btw shouldnt you break in the ring pinion before you go offroading?

Probably...but I'm over it and will wheel anyways. Lol

 

[06 H3]

Bump. A big thanks to ZACH! He got me my new e locker and the other one is being warrantied.

It got here tonight and I am ready to reinstall it all. I have been super busy with school and work but this weekend I need to get this thing installed and going because I will not have time to do anything during the week and because I leave for camping and wheeling for KOH one week from tomorrow!!!!!

Quick question, when I was helping my buddy install his e locker for a POS Dana 35 he needed special bearings, does that apply to an H3 front locker? I looked it up and didnt get much info. I am ordering new ones and I destroyed one pulling it off. Just wanna avoid the hangups if possible, time is not on my side.

 

[Zach]

Quick question, when I was helping my buddy install his e locker for a POS Dana 35 he needed special bearings, does that apply to an H3 front locker? I looked it up and didnt get much info. I am ordering new ones and I destroyed one pulling it off. Just wanna avoid the hangups if possible, time is not on my side.

They are the same with or without the locker