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Over kill coil over shocks

SolidusJ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,028
Location
FT. Carson, CO
Checked out Per-runner Colorado on 355 and came across this one. Is it over kill for coil over shocks? Shouldn't these sand runners be 4x4? There could be a chance in hell to make this work on the 3's.

ImageUploadedByAutoguide1342105240332912.jpg
 

jakesz28

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,056
Location
Cabool MO
I haven't found a good link with info. But there are some H3's with a custom fabbed upper shock mount and coil over front shocks. I would like to talk to someone that has done that on the stock a arms. The benefit would be losing the weak torsion bar and having 8 inches of travel.
Since the front torsion bars are weak on my Hummer I want to do this with the stock arms. If after market torsions were availble i dont think I would mess with it. This way i can have the correct spring rate to support the front of the vehicle. Better ride, less front end dive, and more travel are my goals. But a solid axle looks even better.
 
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4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
Don't forget you would probably need taller knuckles (like the ones in the Rancho kit), to take advantage of the longer travel. Notice how the knuckles in your photo seem to be tall, fabbed versions?...that's pretty cool. I'm guessing the stock ones were probably cast and shorter than these. Also, like shown in your photo...some sort of hoop & frame stiffening would be a must. Not sure I would rely on the H3's stock shock-mounting points to carry the weight of the vehicle.

You might try doing a search for FJ-Cruiser or Xterra coil-overs. These two vehicles are smaller, lighter cousins of the H3 and use a similar IFS system. The only difference is they come with a coil-over (strut) arrangement instead of the torsion-bar rig that GM used. I've seen some pretty tricked-out IFS setups on both of these vehicles, and I'm sure many of the same issues would apply to the H3.
 

bebe

Moderator
Messages
1,375
Location
Dayton, NV
Checked out Per-runner Colorado on 355 and came across this one. Is it over kill for coil over shocks? Shouldn't these sand runners be 4x4? There could be a chance in hell to make this work on the 3's.

ImageUploadedByAutoguide1342105240332912.jpg


Not over kill, and most desert/sand trucks, if not 90%, are 2wd. It's all about Horsepower. Plus, those are coil overs with bypass shocks. If there was a way to do this on H3 without a good deal of fabrication....it would be on my truck. :)

Sam at samco fab has a project on his website (Damien Michelins H3 prerunner). That's the only H3 aside from mine with coil-overs and a bypass shock.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,496
Location
Meridian, ID
I saw damiens build. Did they remove the stock down travel limiter for the upper a arm? I think he claimed 8in of travel from that build...not sure if its real travel or just an 8in travel coilover

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 

elripster

Well-Known Member
Messages
111
Location
San Diego
Jakesz28, just some food for thought but less brake dive and more flex are kind of opposites of each other. The "weak" torsion bar is that way to improve the front suspensions flex on the trail. Sure if you wanted to stiffen up the front end for higher speed stuff a stiffer bar would help that. However, it will be at the direct reduction of flex on slow speed trail type wheeling.

BTW, you probably have about 8" of travel now. I have not measured mine but judging the difference in tires under flex against the bumper one is easily 1/4 of a 35" tire offset against the other.

Frank
 

jakesz28

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,056
Location
Cabool MO
I have to agree with you. If it is to stiff it will not have as much travel. That is why I don't think the longer bump stops to combat the front end dive is an option.
I guess the correct weight springs to handle the extra weight and a tighter valved shook would work good together.
I have not taken the torsion bar loose or off to check the actual travel is. But I only have 2 inches of down travel right now. With the 35's if I don't do anything I will have problems if it compresses another 6 inches. I would have to say by looking at the bump stop there is only about 6 inches of travel. That's with the replacement front shock.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,496
Location
Meridian, ID
That is where the benefits of a coilover comes into play especially if its dual rate. ORE uses them all the time, if tuned well, I think the theory is that the one spring which is a much lower rate for the flex will excel while crawling then the second spring will come into play at higher speeds and is stiffer. The tough part IMO is tuning them, I guess for the guys who tune these things all day can do it in there sleep and can make them near perfect.
 

elripster

Well-Known Member
Messages
111
Location
San Diego
The H3 already has the equivalent of dual rate coils. The jounce bumper, or bumpstop, is very compliant and is an integral part of the total spring rate. It compresses significantly when you flex up the suspension. Your torsion bar provides one rate and jounce bumper provides about two more once the arm makes contact. You'll notice the bumper has that necked down section? That is where it compresses very easily. I believe that is supposed to be the brake dive section. Once that is taken up its resistance to compression increases much more. When the lower mushroom hits the seat into which it sits the bumper will seriously resist compression.

I can see where the engineers were going with this I think it's a good idea. However, like most OEM setups, it's middle of the road as far stiffness vs. flex.

A properly designed replacement jounce bumper could essentially be the trick but I haven't had a chance to fab up my design yet.

That said, if you add a winch/bumper, the static load will be higher and a stiffer torsion bar would make sense there.

One thing to note about shocks. They affect the rate at which the suspension moves. Viscous dampers like shocks provide more resistance based how fast you try t make them move. Since brake dive doesn't compress the suspension at a very high rate of speed and tends to hold in a position for a length of time the shock will have little affect on total dive.

Frank
 

jakesz28

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,056
Location
Cabool MO
Replaced bumper, added winch, really looking at dual battery options, also have a roof rack so the weight is adding up.
 

elripster

Well-Known Member
Messages
111
Location
San Diego
A stiffer t-bar is your best bet. You have added some serious static load. Shops can make them. With that added weight you can stiffen up enough to compensate and have all the flex you had at stock weight.

Shops can make them but one off runs are usually really pricey.

Frank
 
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