Newb to T-bars, help?

[USMC_315]

Hey guys,

I've never worked on t-bars before, nor have I ever had them worked on, so I'm really in the dark on this one. Like I may have mentioned in my build thread and possibly somewhere else, the measurements between center of the wheel and fender are both different on the front end. I was reading this thread, which was helpful until it turned into a comment war. :slapfight

I also read a few other threads and I'm somewhat starting to understand what I need to do.....but I'm not quite there yet. Sorry for all the questions that will follow...

1. If I crank the t-bars, should I install new shocks?
2. Are torsion keys that were mentioned in the above thread a better solution than just cranking the T-bar itself?
3. Will leveling it actually put me at a higher risk of them breaking in offroad situations?
4. Could an uneven/unbalanced t-bar be the cause of my front bumper to be uneven with the grill?
5. Should I crank my t-bars before it goes back to Carmax for servicing since they'll probably be doing an alignment for my front end shaking?

As always, thank you in advance for any help!!

 

[digglesworth]

Shocks will be a little short. There's several fixes for it. Search "hunner nut trick". Or get yourself some longer bilstein 5100s. The measurement is 23.5" to keep things "safe". Torsion leveling kits aren't needed. Stock setup will give you what you need. Torsion bars lift the whole front end so not sure what is causing your bumper issues. And yes, adjust before the alignment. Set the height, drive it around for a day or so and adjust as needed. Let it settle, then get the alignment. You'll experience added nose dive with raising your front end but there's extended bumpstops available to help with that.

 

[derian06]

Hey guys,

I've never worked on t-bars before, nor have I ever had them worked on, so I'm really in the dark on this one. Like I may have mentioned in my build thread and possibly somewhere else, the measurements between center of the wheel and fender are both different on the front end. I was reading this thread, which was helpful until it turned into a comment war. :slapfight

I also read a few other threads and I'm somewhat starting to understand what I need to do.....but I'm not quite there yet. Sorry for all the questions that will follow...

1. If I crank the t-bars, should I install new shocks?
2. Are torsion keys that were mentioned in the above thread a better solution than just cranking the T-bar itself?
3. Will leveling it actually put me at a higher risk of them breaking in offroad situations?
4. Could an uneven/unbalanced t-bar be the cause of my front bumper to be uneven with the grill?
5. Should I crank my t-bars before it goes back to Carmax for servicing since they'll probably be doing an alignment for my front end shaking?

As always, thank you in advance for any help!!

1. If you want
2. They're Snake Oil
3. Slightly
4. Not sure
5. Yes you should only takes a couple of minutes

 

[Graham2990]

1. Most would recommend it, as your shocks will no longer be long enough to travel all the way out. (too short)
2. Snake Oil X2
3. Breaking what? A torsion bar? Only negative is the slight increase of angle on CV shafts.
4. Not at all. Torsion bars are a suspension component. Nothing in the suspension is connected to your front bumper or grille.

(Didn't you start a thread a few days ago that mentioned body shims? If shims fell out, identify where and replace them in the spot they fell from. The purpose of body shims is to correct body panel alignment or gaps. Typically evidence of an impact/collision as it didn't come from GM with body shims)

5. Yes, you will need an alignment after adjusting them. I'd request they do one due to the front end vibration regardless.

 

[USMC_315]

Shocks will be a little short. There's several fixes for it. Search "hunner nut trick". Or get yourself some longer bilstein 5100s. The measurement is 23.5" to keep things "safe". Torsion leveling kits aren't needed. Stock setup will give you what you need. Torsion bars lift the whole front end so not sure what is causing your bumper issues. And yes, adjust before the alignment. Set the height, drive it around for a day or so and adjust as needed. Let it settle, then get the alignment. You'll experience added nose dive with raising your front end but there's extended bumpstops available to help with that.

should I add the 5100s all around, or will the front be enough? I saw the two kits on TrailDuty.com but I wasn't sure if I should just get the front two shocks and front bumpstops or if I should get 5100s all the way around and new bump stops

 

[digglesworth]

Depends on you. How many miles are on the shocks now? Can you afford to just do all 4 and be done with it? you're only effecting the front by cranking the t-bars. But new shocks all the way around wouldn't hurt...

 

[alrock]

1. If I crank the t-bars, should I install new shocks?
2. Are torsion keys that were mentioned in the above thread a better solution than just cranking the T-bar itself?
3. Will leveling it actually put me at a higher risk of them breaking in offroad situations?
4. Could an uneven/unbalanced t-bar be the cause of my front bumper to be uneven with the grill?
5. Should I crank my t-bars before it goes back to Carmax for servicing since they'll probably be doing an alignment for my front end shaking?

1. I'm running OEM shocks with the cranked torsion bars. Maybe I lose a bit of drop, but enough that I've noticed or that I'm not enjoying my H3
2. No need for torsion keys
3. The higher you crank the torsion bars, the greater wear and tear you put on the CVs AND the steering rack. It will not just be wear and tear off road but on road as well. The angles when your truck is at 23.5" from center of hub to bottom of fender seem to be reasonable; above that and they are not reasonable. For the steering rack, the tie rod angle becomes quite sharp and on bumps, instead of pivoting up on the inner tie rod end, it jams the rack upwards in the brackets before it begins pivoting. I've worn out one rack already and my second rack is about due for replacement for the same reason.
4. The bumper is mounted to the frame, the grill is mounted to the body. It is unlikely that the torsion bars are affecting this. Do you have an aftermarket bumper or factory setup? Actually, either bumper should have some leeway in the adjustment, but so does the grill. Figure out which one is actually misaligned, loosen the bolts and adjust
5. Whenever you crank the torsion bars, you change the alignment settings. I would recommend leaving it as is for the warranty work you are seeking. After that, if you want to crank the torsion bars, do so and get another alignment. Firestone has a lifetime alignment for about double the cost of one alignment. I've used it about eight times so far.

 

[USMC_315]

1. I'm running OEM shocks with the cranked torsion bars. Maybe I lose a bit of drop, but enough that I've noticed or that I'm not enjoying my H3
2. No need for torsion keys
3. The higher you crank the torsion bars, the greater wear and tear you put on the CVs AND the steering rack. It will not just be wear and tear off road but on road as well. The angles when your truck is at 23.5" from center of hub to bottom of fender seem to be reasonable; above that and they are not reasonable. For the steering rack, the tie rod angle becomes quite sharp and on bumps, instead of pivoting up on the inner tie rod end, it jams the rack upwards in the brackets before it begins pivoting. I've worn out one rack already and my second rack is about due for replacement for the same reason.
4. The bumper is mounted to the frame, the grill is mounted to the body. It is unlikely that the torsion bars are affecting this. Do you have an aftermarket bumper or factory setup? Actually, either bumper should have some leeway in the adjustment, but so does the grill. Figure out which one is actually misaligned, loosen the bolts and adjust
5. Whenever you crank the torsion bars, you change the alignment settings. I would recommend leaving it as is for the warranty work you are seeking. After that, if you want to crank the torsion bars, do so and get another alignment. Firestone has a lifetime alignment for about double the cost of one alignment. I've used it about eight times so far.

how high did you crank your t-bars? and how many miles in between replacing your CVs and steering rack?

 

[USMC_315]

Depends on you. How many miles are on the shocks now? Can you afford to just do all 4 and be done with it? you're only effecting the front by cranking the t-bars. But new shocks all the way around wouldn't hurt...

The extra rear shocks were only about $100 extra, but as far as handling would they improve the vehicle on and off road from stock ones if I went all the way around?

 

[digglesworth]

theyll match the front as far as valving. IMO itll balance out the ride front and rear.

 

[backcountryislife]

Guys... when you change settings on a Tbar, you're not changing ANYTHING other than ride height.

The shocks will not be "too short"... because the travel is EXACTLY what it was before, EXACTLY. A t bar crank isn't a lift, it's simply changing where the arms sit in the full travel.
when you extend the shocks, you allow other parts to hit metal on metal, rather than using the internal bumper in the shock. Yes, there's a little travel to be gained, but it comes at the cost of allowing the suspension to top out.

Either way... there's no way around the basic physical reality... cranking your Tbars does NOT make one need shocks, period. It changes nothing but where in the travel you sit.


By the way, the 5100's that are "for" this application allow you to hit metal on metal, we've had numerous members confirm this, if I had it to do again I wouldn't have bought them.

 

[alrock]

how high did you crank your t-bars? and how many miles in between replacing your CVs and steering rack?

Was at 24", first rack wore out in about 35,000 miles. Been at 23.5" or less since then, 2nd rack is wearing out after another 100K. CVs have not failed but have been replaced due to boot failure

 

[Ghostbuster]

So I've heard that turning the torsion bars to around 23-23.5 inches is the safe zone. But that the ride is considerably firmer. Would buying those torsion keys that re-index the bars reduce or eliminate that firmness that comes with just adjusting the bars by themselves? Or are those aftermarket keys really snake oil?

 

[SedonaBound]

Many believe there's a strong correlation between raising the front end with the t-bars, and prematurely worn-out CV joints and steering racks.

 

[USMC_315]

I just noticed today that my left side is about 1 inch higher than the other, is that going to affect anything? Should I fix it asap? I just don't want to have to go get the tires alignment again

 

[Ghostbuster]

I just noticed today that my left side is about 1 inch higher than the other, is that going to affect anything? Should I fix it asap? I just don't want to have to go get the tires alignment again

lol. yes. yes. and yes your going to need another alignment.. Might as well get a firestone lifetime alignment...

 

[Pappibri]

I agree. You can't go wrong with the Firestone lifetime alignment, especially if you wheel your rig, and it saves money when you do your own front end repairs.

 

[USMC_315]

I think my truck was just sitting at a weird angle, I was measuring it before I was about to make the adjustment and it's exactly even now. Not complaining cuz it means less work and more play :yay

 

[alrock]

Keys are not likely to change anything performance-wise. Increased ride height can lead to increased steering and CV angles, leading to premature wear and failure, hence the "recommended" max heights.

If the two sides are different, fix the side that's wrong. You got it aligned (theoretically) when they were both the same height, thus returning it to even would actually bring it closer to the correct alignment without going to a shop.

 

[08H3]

As far as added wear and tear, I have been leveled since 100 miles on the odometer and am now at 145,000. I am on the original steering rack. The rack is fine and tie rods are not worn and have never been replaced. I have the full 145,000 miles on one CV. The second was swapped out at 142,000 because of a torn boot, but the joint is still fine. I may be an anomaly, but it does not appear to have had any consequential impact. Of course, my posting this means I just cursed myself.

 

[1DIRTYH3]

Good to know. I adjusted to 23.5" and got Firestone lifetime, extended bump-stops and love the ride. Glad I returned re-indexed keys... Spent the money on new Bilstein shocks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[razortray]

I just purchased my 2007 h3 the torsion bar are maxed out it rides and handles horrible bounces all over the rode. I have not measured the height but would like to keep it as level as possible and gain some of my ride quality back. If I am understanding this correctly measure from the center of the Hub to the inner fender and at 23.5" I should be good to go? Where do I order the extended bump-stops from also? Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[1DIRTYH3]

Yes that is what works well for most and trail duty is where you get the extended bump stops... They are back in stock so you should act quickly. That settled the bounce for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[1DIRTYH3]

Don't know how many miles you have on your shocks but bilsteins seemed to help my ride quality too. They have them at trail duty in a package deal that is well priced.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SedonaBound]

As far as added wear and tear, I have been leveled since 100 miles on the odometer and am now at 145,000. I am on the original steering rack. The rack is fine and tie rods are not worn and have never been replaced. I have the full 145,000 miles on one CV. The second was swapped out at 142,000 because of a torn boot, but the joint is still fine. I may be an anomaly, but it does not appear to have had any consequential impact. Of course, my posting this means I just cursed myself.

I'm no suspension or driveline guru but I don't see any way for the CV joints or axles to accommodate the change in geometry from cranking the t-bars except by taking up all clearance/play in the CV joint bearings and loading the bearing with stress they weren't designed for. Not trying to start something; just looking for answers.