HUNNER EXtreme Steering Rack Sleeves

[shawndondo]

Hunner, I tried just the center hole setscrew first but there was still some lateral movement. Once I drilled and taped the three 5/16 set screws and the pilot holes on your sleeve design it tightened everything up nice and firm. Like stated above I also put a liberal amount of JB weld on both the backing plate sandwich between the frame and the rack as well as on the backside of the sleeves against the rack. As you stated use some type of thread locker on the setscrews or bolt which ever you decide to use. I think with the setscrew and poly bushings on the drivers side this will almost eliminate split rack....hopefully

 

[Hunner]

Thanks for your input. We need to consider all the ideas.
My thought was the big one in the center would push evenly on the sleeve so the teeth would mesh and the cut side would be about even.

I have thought about mounting it, tightening the bolt to mark the sleeve and then remove it and drill an indention in the sleeve. My concern with that is the bolt may crush into the rack housing. I used a bolt with a 9/16" hex head so I could get some grip and torque.
Did you drill thru the sleeve or just make an indention?

I used a large size bolt for more surface contact. Maybe add two more after tightening? It would look like a sea mine! lol but that might be what it takes.
This is really the opposite of grinding as it pushes the sleeve away from the bracket but may work. It also shows without grinding and conforming the bracket to the sleeve in a vice, the amount of slack there is because of the shape of the bracket, and the sleeve and rack being round. When I install one of these on mine that has had some grinding on the bracket and frame mounting area I think the sleeve will be held in full contact with the bracket. I want to wait until I can get this rear plate that will thru bolt to the bracket mounting holes and welded to the inner sleeve.
I'm headed out now to beg for it. More donuts.(these guys love Krispy Creme donuts)

 

[shawndondo]

Did you drill thru the sleeve or just make an indention?

I didnt drill all the way through. just about 1/8 in or so just enought to make a dipple so the setscrew would sit in there.

 

[Hunner]

Yeah that might be good. I tried tightening up my mockup as much as I dared. I swear that bracket stretched. I won't know until I get time to actually install it in the H3. My back up plate I was using to act as the frame may have bent instead. I was going to also cut down an old cut off from some 3" sleeves and see if some how I could stick it in there. I will have to work on that later but I think it would be tough to get it clamped down in the tight space we have to work.

 

[Hunner]

Here was the completion of what I was headed for. I have had this in mind for months but, things got fuzzed up!
I wanted to have a full length bracket shim behind the OEM bracket. That will add some pressure to the fit but I don't think it will hurt that little bit more. Then Monday I will have a clean tig weld on either side of the back half of the sleeve tacked on the edges. I will assemble this one on my test rack so the teeth line up. The OEM can then come off and the assembly done in the vehicle. It could be dry fit up in there that way, marked and taken out to weld so the sleeve halves will line up.
Together it would look like this. So those having problems getting or keeping them tight without grinding, will have less chance of the rear one falling out. The outer one that is thru bolted will hold it all together. Rubber or neoprene could still be used but I'm still thinking on that idea.

I want to find a simple upgrade that is cheap for the few that have had trouble getting them tight without grinding. I want a metal contact firm that will not move and will not allow a piece to come out.
As soon as I can have this tacked on I will change out the tight one I have on my Alpha with one of these.
If this works out I will try to do some sort of exchange with those that will try it.
I'm going in the shop attic to the Hummer Emporium and see if I have one more to mod for my test dummy, hahah

 

[06 H3]

That seems like a good idea!

 

[Hunner]

I mocked it up on the test rack using some bolts to hold it together. I could tighten the lock bolt enough it actually bent the temporary rear brace. So when that is flush against the frame it will not give and should become very tight.
I cannot spin it on the rack like this. Only testing will see if the hydraulics apply enough force to move it laterally. If so I can ad one or two more lock bolts.

 

[06 H3]

I really like that bolt idea...Can you torque it to a point to do damage to the rack? lol

 

[Hunner]

I don't think so. By placing it in the center of the sleeve it appears to distribute the force over a wide area.
I need to look up how much torque that size fastener will take but the determining factor will be the number of threads in that bracket. I just got it really tight and a bit more to see if it stripped. It has not. I don't think there is anyway to get a torque wrench on it after installing in the H3. I will also as always use thread locker when installing it for real.
I'm thinking I am going to go ahead and place one towards the bottom to tighten up after the center one. The sleeve will have to be placed in there so the second bolt will be pressing back from the edge and I think I will insert the sleeve so the straight edge is down so it will be under the bolt. The teeth will align it at the top.
I also have to make sure that bolt does not interfere with tightening the lower mounting bolt thru the OEM bracket.
I don't think I can get to one on top unless maybe an allen head screw. Not sure about that yet. I need to wait to install it to see just at what angle that would have to be.
I can't finalize some of those details until I get in there. Stay tuned..........
FrankenBracket! two electrodes in the neck.

As tight at this is I may install it and forego welding the back half of the sleeve for now and see how it does.
I guess that means I will have to go test it!

 

[Pappibri]

Will be awaiting the verdict of the trial run.. I am waiting to install mine till we see how this idea works. The new rack they put in is still nice and tight so its no hurry. Want to do it right the first time...

 

[Hunner]

I guess I could do a night run?

This is without the inner sleeve half, welded. I had to know how it fit. I'm going to make another one and have that welded Monday just to further study what can be done. That would be even better I would think. All pieces contained and it will help prevent the rack sliding the sleeve any, if that is what is occuring and provide more surface area thru bolted to hold the inner sleeve half.
It looks like the OEM bracket will actually flex when these locking bolts I added are tightened and pull away slightly from the sleeve. The bracket conformed to the sleeve before I tightened them. Maybe that was part of the problem to begin with, was the bracket is soft. Could be part of the breakaway design? It seems strange it would bend instead of just break away some how. Hell I don't know but the thing is really tight as it sits and jacked up. So now it needs some flexing.
Mine was not moving before but this has to be even tighter.
The added metal on the back took up 1/8 of the wiggle room for a socket between the bolts and front diff because I had more trouble working up in there. Poor access for this either way.
This is really cheap to make, just takes some drilling and tapping and a 6 inch piece of flat steel.
Did I mention I hate starting that upper bolt!!

 

[08H3]

Ha ha! Looks like Frankenrack! Glad that some of us are finding ways of making this work, even if the result has been attained from different directions.

 

[H3slate]

This looks like a good idea. I like adding the metal shim behind the bracket and it welded to the sleeve. Also being able to tighten the rack and sleeve makes sense. I noticed behind my rack that it had contoured to the rack sleeve as I tried to tighten it down. Also, the back half of the sleeve was what fell out when it got loose.

 

[Hunner]

As usual I share my findings and don't claim to have all the answers but I'm sure as hell trying, since I started this.
I spent the weekend working on several brackets. I went to the shop today to get some input and tig welding done.
I fitted each bracket to the test rack and then welded the rear half of the sleeve in place on the full backing plate. That has to be done so the teeth line up as each are slightly different.
The discussion between three of us came to the conclusion that if the drivers side uses the OEM bushings, it will move some a little as it was apparently designed to do. So mounting the drivers side so it cannot move at all could present other problems. The rack would take the pressure from the piston moving rather than the mounts giving some.
Follow this,
so I decided to use a nut to lock the bolt after tightening it enough to firm things up but not really cranking down on it. That nut could also be welded in place to provide more threads than just those in the bracket. Not sure if fine threads was the way to go or not. I was thinking more threads was better but it was pointed out that course threads were deeper and larger and may take more force. Jury is out on that, more thought.
Reasoning was this would capture both halves and tighten the bushing sleeve on the rack. However if the hydraulic force of the rack is possibly strong enough to move the rack laterally within the sleeve that would relieve pressure on the joint in the rack as opposed to rigid.
(someone mentioned it could be as high as 3000 lb?) have to check on that. It was also brought up without me bringing it up that larger tires, cranked torsions and hard offroad wheeling would all contribute to other forces being increased.
I still have to see if the 3/4 bolt will fit between the rack bracket and diff. I used 1/2 on mine but could see if there is room for a flatter nut.
If using the Holden Aussie drivers side bushings that either eliminate movement or only allow very slight movement then you might tighten the pass side even more to stop movement. Then you would almost have a rigid rack mount. Either for good or bad that would probably cause more feedback or vibrations and shock. Could be acceptable to some.
As I posted earlier I wanted to try all this installed but this weekend installed mine without the welded back side. So I tightened mine really tight. I will test it some and then change to the welded one. I just want to see how it holds up for a few trails.

 

[Hunner]

This looks like a good idea. I like adding the metal shim behind the bracket and it welded to the sleeve. Also being able to tighten the rack and sleeve makes sense. I noticed behind my rack that it had contoured to the rack sleeve as I tried to tighten it down. Also, the back half of the sleeve was what fell out when it got loose.

That's interesting input and welcomed. I have not had my rack out so did not notice if what you mentioned happened. I will try to look in there when I install the welded sleeve and bracket. You are saying that raised area over the weld nuts crushed some? Then this plate would hopefully prevent that. I think the rear sleeve being captive not only by the teeth but welded to that plate will solve that issue.
I was cautious on the thickness of the rear plate as I do not want to move the rack out too much.
I have to read back on all these posts, but did you say you recovered the sleeve??

 

[H3slate]

That's interesting input and welcomed. I have not had my rack out so did not notice if what you mentioned happened. I will try to look in there when I install the welded sleeve and bracket. You are saying that raised area over the weld nuts crushed some? Then this plate would hopefully prevent that. I think the rear sleeve being captive not only by the teeth but welded to that plate will solve that issue.
I was cautious on the thickness of the rear plate as I do not want to move the rack out too much.
I have to read back on all these posts, but did you say you recovered the sleeve??

The area directly behind the rack was what bent. And that was due to trying to get that nice tight fit for the sleeves. I was able to recover half the sleeve. Thanks to you, I had enough additional pieces to put in a franken fix, but I am still looking for a permament solution.

I am considering getting a new rack as the rubber bushings on the drivers side have some movement in them. I also think no matter what we do on the passenger side, the driver side will become the weak link over time.

I contacted the Australian company about the poly bushing kit, but they are still a couple of weeks out before they are available. I need to figure out a good fix for this problem this winter, before I go on any trails.

 

[atvspeed4]

If we had a spare rack we could help...

 

[reaper]

Ive got several broken spares. Send me an email with what you need.

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Hunner]

If we had a spare rack we could help...

I thought you had a mount being made some time ago?


I bought several spare racks just for experimentation and to carry one as a spare. I figured they were needed if I was going to come up with a better fix and cheap insurance on trips to save alot of hassle. (I only carry one) I have used up most of the brackets at this point. I did think of using one more bolt in my fix for this on the lower edge to contact that end of the rear half of the sleeve. I can see the bolts have forced the outer sleeve to the rack but the edge of the rear one is not quite if full contact, but it is tight. I have room for one more bolt on the one I installed. I did not think of that before I did the welding. So these three I have don't have the rear sleeve slid up enough for a third bolt. Not certain that is needed.
When I get the energy to remove mine I will add the third bolt and weld the sleeve to the back brace.
I'm just trying to work with what I have and secure the rack for my use. If anyone wants to try this the materials are easy to acquire rather than starting from scratch to build something else.
Until I get back in there I'm not sure if the 3/4 inch bolt and a nut will fit directly across from the diff at the tightest place the cover comes over but that is where it presses on the center of the sleeve. If I rotate the sleeve some on future proto-types it may work. This just takes some time to get all this done but I will stay on it.
The one I made and installed is working for now but should be welded for best results, I believe.

 

[atvspeed4]

We have the measurements for the passenger mount but still need the diameter to make the press in aluminum bushings for the drivers side.

 

[Hunner]

Did some serious testing the "two bolt with backing plate" mod on the sleeve. Mine is not welded, yet, on the backside half sleeve. I did have three of those made but not when I test fit mine. So I thought if it worked without welding, welding will improve it.
If the pass side is secure then there does not seem to be much movement on the drivers side bushes, but I do detect some on further study of that video. Fixing both sides should be even better.
This is tires on the ground, engine running. Alpha with 58,000 miles original rack and drivers side bushings. The movement in camera frame is the entire H3 going side to side when I turn the steering lock to lock.
click for video.

 

[Hunner]

06H3
Next mod done! The hunner franken steering sleeve. WOW! What a difference! With 100k miles on the original steering rack (its starting to leak and have a replacement) it has tons of play. I originally had the first gen hunner mount and I had a small metal plate behind it, on the trail it came off and I lost the entire hunner sleeve. Driving home was scary, I could feel the entire rack move before the actual tires would move, making a small adjustment require almost half a turn. I threw the stock bushing and sleeve back in when I got home. The mount was warped and the bushing was new, even with the new bushing and somewhat warped mount I had tons of play, both worn driver side bushings played a role also. Hunner sent me the franken-mount and even painted it red for me! I think he wanted me to install it ASAP. lol I have been busy but found some time and installed it. The steering is so tight and precise, its awesome! The driver side bushings are still shot but the franken mount makes up for so much play. I cant be any happier from the initial test drive. I cant wait to get it off road. Once I throw some delrin bushings in the new rack I have and install it with this I will be so happy! For added safety I may do the franken mount in the middle and the PCF mount on in the OEM location. Either way I am stoked. Thanks Hunner!

I brought that over here from 06H3's build thread.
Great I'm glad you got it on there. I don't know if I can find shorter bolts or not. My supplier has not called me back. I wanted a little less than the 1/2 inch and it would still have some threads showing meaning it had not bottomed out before tightening the sleeve. That would give the top one more space between the diff and head. I don't think the diff can move forward much if any. You had some experience messing with some of that so do think that space as it is will be a problem? A 3/8 inch bolt may work. I ground mine off a little. I can get some special order.
I still have not had time to get my welded one on but just got the holes threaded. Hopefully tomorrow. Since you got one of the prototypes I wanted to ask if it was a problem sliding the back half in there with OEM tie rods. Apparently you had to remove the boot. I figured that. With my BP tie rods I can pull my rack out more so I think I can slide mine in past the boot.
I'm sure you will test it well so let us know your findings.

 

[06 H3]

I will give a longer reply later as I'm on the mobile right now but it shouldn't move. I have no clearance issues to the rancho lift but a stock 3 will have tighter tolerances

 

[Hunner]

I am going to grind down the bolt in the original hole where the OEM rubber bushing "tiddy" was until only a few threads are showing. It may end up about 3/8 or more long. I don't think it can contact the diff. now but I will attempt to make it shorter for future brackets. I needed it where it is to be in the center of the sleeve.

 

[H3slate]

Here is the franken bracket I got from Hunner to "test". :cheers:

My previous setup was a partial hunner sleeve and partial "whatever curved scrap metal" was available.*

*All parts were generously supplied by Hunner, and having those parts saved my rack from disaster on the trail.

I took the old setup out and got ready to put in the new setup. After a fresh coat of paint, came to the first challenge.

With the sleeve welded to the backing bracket(a bracket that I think is totally necessary, my previous setup had bent in the metal on the frame behind the sleeve and bracket) getting the part to fit behind the rack was difficult. I loosened the driver's side mount and removed the rubber boot on the passenger side. This gave me enough room to leverage the rack away from the frame and get the sleeve in behind the steering rack.

Once that part was in, the rest was pretty straight forward. Getting the franken bolts started was hard, there is not a lot of room between the bracket and the front diff, once started they were no problem. I did apply some loctite to the bolts to keep them in place. It would be nice to have those bolts a little bit shorter, just for peace of mind for clearance, and to make it easier to get them started.

I am pretty happy with the results. This new bracket allows for no movement up, down, or backwards and forwards. Given the condition of my drivers side bushings, there is a little side to side movement, but it is less than before.

I am not done fixing the front end. I feel like I need to either replace the bushings on the drivers side to eliminate movement, or get a new rack. I also have some alignment issues, which look like stem from worn out control arm bushings. Hope to get those replaced soon and get a new alignment.

Thanks again Hunner for letting me be one of the test dummies. Will hopefully be hitting the trails to give the new bracket a true test. So far on my 60 mile daily commute, I have seen improvement in how the front end handles.