H3 with MAJOR drivetrain problems

[MaxPF]

Appreciate the insights. I was spoiled - I had an '83 Ramcharger and an '06 Wrangler. The '83 Ramcharger, believe it or not, had a Dana 44 FBJ - full float. People never believe me when I tell them that, but, yet, that truck came with a full float front axle.

All solid front axles are full floaters. It's the nature of the design.

 

[lugantom]

All solid front axles are full floaters. It's the nature of the design.

No, most solid axles are semi-float, with the weight of the vehicle still resting on the axle shaft. For example, the Chrysler 9.25" axle on the back of the Ramcharger was semi-float. The Dana 44 FBJ was full float - the full weight was on the axle housing, and the axle itself spun through the supported hub. No weight on the axle.

Here's a good explanation: http://www.ringpinion.com/Content/Book/Semi-Float-vs-Full-Float.pdf

I've been out of this for a while, but, back in the day, full floats were rare in 1/2 ton applications.

 

[4speedfunk]

Every Dana front (30, 44, 60) I've ever seen is a full floater....Ford, Dodge, Jeep, GM, whatever. The weight of the vehicle is supported entirely by the spindles, knuckles, and ball-joints (or king pins). You can drive em around without any shafts at all.

 

[lugantom]

Gotcha. Apparently not all the Dana 44s used in Ramchargers were. Other thing that was nice about that axle was no CAD. I once told a Jeep factory rep I had a full float axle in my R/C, and he didn't believe me. I didn't know the Dana 30s were full float.

 

[lugantom]

This Only Gets Worse ...

OK. So, I picked up my H3 about 30 minutes ago. I didn't get very far. I couldn't back out of the parking space. The drivetrain was bound up. I quickly realized that the t-case was stuck in lock.

I managed to move the truck back to the service bay entrance, and politely told the guys that the drivetrain was bound up. One of the mechanics tried to argue with me, and told me that full time 4wd drives like that. Amazingly, I kept my temper, and politely asked the guys behind the counter to drive it. The first guy did, drove in a circle, and told me that it is bound up and that the "service 4wd" message just displayed. They checked the code reader, and saw the error code for an encoder motor.

NO - I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP. So, rather than drive the loaner car again, I asked them to do what they could. They said that the error code stopped, and that they had it back out of lock. I then drove it, and it is OK, at least for now.

Needless to say, we all agreed, including GM customer service, whom I called immediately, that we're not done yet. So at least GM continues to stand by their warranty.

For those interested - they did let me get pics of the failed parts. This isn't a simple ring and pinion failure - the carrier appears to have failed.

 

[4speedfunk]

Wow. KA-BOOM! That's pretty awesome. Never seen one come apart like that. Looks really grubby too. How many miles on that oil?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lugantom]

Error Msg

Don't recall on the gear lube. It's fresh now!

Got home, safely in driveway, pushed 4loc, christmas tree of lights and "service 4wd" message. Back to dealer Monday. Pretty sure they just disconnected encoder/actuator and failed to reconnect.

Won't be driving this weekend. When encoder / actuator system failed on wife's suburban it randomly dropped into 4 LO.

Annoyed, but think I'm pretty close to having a working truck again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bigunit]

Good luck and please let us know what you find out.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapataint

 

[MaxPF]

No, most solid axles are semi-float, with the weight of the vehicle still resting on the axle shaft. For example, the Chrysler 9.25" axle on the back of the Ramcharger was semi-float. The Dana 44 FBJ was full float - the full weight was on the axle housing, and the axle itself spun through the supported hub. No weight on the axle.

Here's a good explanation: http://www.ringpinion.com/Content/Book/Semi-Float-vs-Full-Float.pdf

I've been out of this for a while, but, back in the day, full floats were rare in 1/2 ton applications.

Rear full floaters are rare in 1/2 tons, but ALL front axles are full floaters.

Gotcha. Apparently not all the Dana 44s used in Ramchargers were. Other thing that was nice about that axle was no CAD. I once told a Jeep factory rep I had a full float axle in my R/C, and he didn't believe me. I didn't know the Dana 30s were full float.

All Ramcharger Dana 44s were full floaters. All Dana 30's are full floaters. I'm thinking the rep doesn't understand what a "full floater" is.

You may be thinking of full-time driven axles. These are front axles that have drive flanges rather than hub locks. They were used along with the NP203 full-time 4WD transfer case. Regardless of whether drive flanges or hub locks are used, the axles are still full floaters.

 

[lugantom]

Well ...

The error code reset itself overnight, and the t-case is functioning correctly this AM.

That's how the Suburban went - random, infrequent error code became more frequent then system finally required new switches and encoder. Didn't fail for over two years.

Guess with this truck I'll have to get used to uncertainty ...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lugantom]

Rear full floaters are rare in 1/2 tons, but ALL front axles are full floaters.



All Ramcharger Dana 44s were full floaters. All Dana 30's are full floaters. I'm thinking the rep doesn't understand what a "full floater" is.

You may be thinking of full-time driven axles. These are front axles that have drive flanges rather than hub locks. They were used along with the NP203 full-time 4WD transfer case. Regardless of whether drive flanges or hub locks are used, the axles are still full floaters.

I did not realize that all of those axles were full float. Makes sense given steering knuckles, etc. Now my old RC seems less special!

Loved that Dana 44! Was indestructible - not just in terms of gears and splines, but case as well. I bashed it on rocks a few times with no issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

No, most solid axles are semi-float, with the weight of the vehicle still resting on the axle shaft. For example, the Chrysler 9.25" axle on the back of the Ramcharger was semi-float. The Dana 44 FBJ was full float - the full weight was on the axle housing, and the axle itself spun through the supported hub. No weight on the axle.

Here's a good explanation: http://www.ringpinion.com/Content/Book/Semi-Float-vs-Full-Float.pdf

I've been out of this for a while, but, back in the day, full floats were rare in 1/2 ton applications.

Did you miss the word "front" when he said "front" axle? I'd love to see your design where the front axle shaft carries the weight and still can turn.

 

[lugantom]

Did you miss the word "front" when he said "front" axle? I'd love to see your design where the front axle shaft carries the weight and still can turn.

Agree - I was being thick. Pretty hard to steer a semi-float.

For anyone concerned, the t-case continues to work fine without throwing any codes. Good thing - unforecasted major snow today. Very nice to be tooling about in the H3 instead of a FWD loaner car.

Dealer was pretty embrarassed that I couldn't even back the truck out of the parking space after they had cleared it. Called me Saturday to apologize and make sure all was well. Pretty impressive.

So far, so good!

 

[lugantom]

Had the truck a week now - all good, front end feels very solid.

Glad to be back in my H3!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lugantom]

Final (Hopefully) Installment

Thought I'd post an update - been a few more weeks without any major problems. Changed the oil the other day, and with the skid plate off, I could verify condition of bushings, etc. Looks to be OK.

 

[alrock]

Glad to hear the good news.

 

[Tdavis]

Reloader, did a search on propeller shaft cv joints and this popped up. I am on my third Dorman and can't figure out why the boots keep splitting within 500 miles. First one was my fault as I positioned the boot sleeve behind the intended location with the clamp. last two have me confused..... I have a new Scorpworks crossmember and front U joint and there is absolutely no play. Just the smell of lubricant as the grease spins onto the exhaust system when they fail. Any ideas

 

[lugantom]

It's been a while since I've been active on this forum. In case anyone was interested, all those drivetrain problems are behind me. Very glad that I didn't give up on the truck. It's now over 10 years old, has about 114,000 miles, and is still my daily driver.

Once over the winter (while my son was driving it out-of-town) it stayed in lock and threw an error - I think some moisture or ice got into something. Did that once in five years and hasn't done it since. No CV joint failures, no problems with the diffs, t-case, or transmission.

Planning a few mods this summer, hoping to do some Overlanding with my M-416 trailer; maybe replace my homemade tent-on-the-trailer set-up with a proper rack and a rooftop tent. We'll see.

 

[rascole]

Good to hear. and glad those pesky problems are behind you.

 

[Mcssls]

I had a Dana 30 fail like that at 60 mph on the highway. 89 wrangler 6" lift on 33s. What a ride that night. Limped it 10 miles home with no driveshaft. Front wheel drive. Tore it down, spider gear flew apart. Momentarily locked ring and pinion. Bent the carrier off center as the pieces went through the ring and pinion.